Amateur and Pro-Am Competition

Warren J. Dew

Forum Master
The "Parents and School" thread started going off into a discussion about amateur and pro-am competition. This thread is for further discussion of that tangent.

To start it off, as someone who has competed both amateur and pro-am, I'll point out some of the things about each that seem to be commonly misunderstood by those that have only done the other.

Probably the thing that pro-ams are most likely to fail to understand about amateur competition is the concept of a committed dance partnership. Here are some of the features of a typical amateur partnership:

- Your partner makes as many mistakes as you do. Your partner's mistakes affect your dancing, and of course your mistakes affect your partner's dancing.

- When you do something wrong, you can't tell if it's because you made a mistake, or if you were actually doing your part right and your partner made a mistake that affected you instead.

- You spend lots of time talking to or arguing with your partner trying to figure out why something is going wrong, and who needs to change to fix it.

- Both you and your partner have scheduling constraints that make it difficult to find good times to practice.

- Both you and your partner have coaching preferences that can make it difficult to figure out where to get the best instruction.

- Your partner has personal foibles that can be difficult for you to recognize and account for, which can make communication difficult. Since communication is the basis for almost everything else in the partnership, this is a big issue. Of course, you may have personal foibles as well - you may not even be aware of them, which just makes things even more difficult.

- Oh yeah, you dance together, too, at least when things are working right ... during which time you worry as much about your partner's dancing as about your own.

A serious amateur partnership - one in which ballroom dancing is one of the most important things in the partners' lives - takes a tremendous amount of personal investment just to make the relationship work, even before any dancing is taken into account. That's why amateur competitors tend to react very strongly when others seem to downplay what such a partnership involves - such as by saying they are "lucky" to have someone to dance with for free (it wasn't luck, it took a lot of hard work to find the right partner, and while it's "free" in terms of money, it's paid for in personal commitment and energy), or when they seem to think it's just like a pro am partnership without the pay (it might be like the pro side of a pro-am partnership without the pay, but with all the hassles that the pro takes care of so the student doesn't have to worry about them).

And it's not like the amateur can use a different term to clarify the relationship - the only available word is "partner". The pro-am has a bunch of words available - "teacher", "instructor", "coach" - so for the amateur, it only confuses things when the pro-am coopts the term "partner" as well, using it for only that small subset of amateur partnership that is also applicable to the pro-am situation.

Because amateur competition is so focused on the partnership, though, amateur competitors often miss a lot of the important points of pro-am competition.

For example, just because pro-am competitions don't involve committed dance partnerships doesn't mean that they don't involve commitment. The student can have a great deal of commitment to the student's own dancing, as can the instructor.

Nor does it mean there isn't real competition. Indeed, pro-am competition is in a way more pure than amateur competition. The instructor serves to create the optimal circumstances so that the student can perform at his or her best, with as little outside limitation as possible. In that sense, pro-am seems to be a purer, more direct form of competition between the individual students - more of a "sport", if you will, since there's less "relationship" stuff to complicate matters.

It doesn't mean there isn't real dancing, either. The instructor tries to create the best possible circumstances for the student, but it is still the student out there dancing. Indeed, because the instructor is good enough that he or she doesn't interfere with the student's dancing, the student can dance to the student's own true potential. And that's probably the point about pro-am competition that amateur competitors, limited as they are by imperfect partners, most often fail to understand.
 
And now I can use this topic to make some replies that would have been out of place in the other thread:

Purr said:
Chris Stratton said:
pygmalion said:
I suspect that feeds into a misconception that many or most pro-am ladies (or gentlemen) are being carried. That's not necessarily so. 8)

No, it's not necessarily so. But then not everyone dancing in some variety of this way is aware of it. If something works on the judges, chances are it also works on a student with no constrasting experience.

Might something like that happen with an am/am couple as well? Where the gentlemen helps the lady cover up a mistake, just to get the dance back on track. Or perhaps helps the lady compensate for, uhmmm, lack of technique. And it was so good that the judges didn't even notice.
It's much rarer in an amateur partnership, for the simple reason that the gentleman in an amateur partnership is only about the same level as the lady. Unlike the professional instructor, the amateur gentleman typically has his hands full just dancing as well as the lady, and doesn't have so much extra ability to spare that he can cover up her mistakes as well.

labelledanseuse said:
I disagree with what's being said about pro/am dancing. The pro can hide the am's flaws... to an extent. How can you tell if he's doing so? I can't tell if my teacher is doing that with me. I don't think so. He doesn't "manhandle" me or carry me around while dancing or anything. I'm good at doing technique, so I think that he wouldn't need to hide anything.
A good pro can help the student in a lot of ways other than hiding flaws. He can provide a better lead - or in the case of a female instructor, a better follow - which takes some of the burden of remembering and executing the technique off the student. The pro is also usually dancing well within his limits of balance, and can thus help stabilize the student so that it's easier for the student to execute the technique properly. This latter effect, in particular, is very difficult to notice - unless the student is asked to dance a figure by himself or herself, at which point the issue may become blindingly obvious.

Can you reliably dance the same figures as well by yourself as you can with your instructor? If not, the difference shows the extent to which your instructor is helping you.
 
absolutely on the mark.

I used to use my instructor as a balance beam to do some of the more complicated spins in waltz and the pose lines like hover corte and contra check.

I think amateur partnerships are a better idea because you can spend more time with them, get to know them really closely, it's much more inexpensive and you'll (hopefully) be friends forever... now of course I'm a guy dancer and female partners are somewhat more abundant
 
Warren J. Dew said:
Can you reliably dance the same figures as well by yourself as you can with your instructor? If not, the difference shows the extent to which your instructor is helping you.

This is a great exercise, and any problems the student has become readily apparent, very quickly. It can be a very humbling experience, when a figure that seems very simple, for example a crossover break in cha cha, suddenly becomes very complicated. It can also be very exciting when you finally start to get it right on yout own. I've worked on figures by myself during private lessons and group classes, with the teacher talking about correct technique. I've also been encouraged to practice by myself on my own time.
 
Preparing for school figure exams (or medal exams -- or whatever you call them) can be another eye opener, as well.
 
redhead said:
I've seen the blame game in amateur partnerships way too often

It's not restricted to am-am partnerships though! There are pro-pro cases too, both quiet and (in)famous.

And the causes seem to be the same: can't figure out where the real problem lies, or can figure it out but can't present it in a way the partner feels like listening to. Getting outside help can do a lot to alleviate the symptoms, though core problems in both communication and inability to objectively analyze can remain.
 
here's a question for the pro-am dancers out there.

ok, a couple questions.

1. how long from when you decided to dance with your pro partner until your first competition?

2. did you dance just a few dances, or all 5 or ten in your category?

3. how much competition did you have, or were you mostly competing against yourself?

4. did you start at bronze or just jump to whatever level your coach suggested?
 
alemana said:
here's a question for the pro-am dancers out there.

ok, a couple questions.

1. how long from when you decided to dance with your pro partner until your first competition?

2. did you dance just a few dances, or all 5 or ten in your category?

3. how much competition did you have, or were you mostly competing against yourself?

4. did you start at bronze or just jump to whatever level your coach suggested?

1. started dancing with my teacher in Sep, decided to compete with him in Dec, competed with him for the first time in Apr

2. all 5 standard dances in two differenct levels plus a multi-dance event

3. it was a fairly small competition, but it was contested

4. both bronze and silver and the multi-dance, which is combined bronze and silver. to answer your question, I competed at the levels suggested by my teacher
 
My answers:

1) I think it was about 6 months (but I had some social lessons for about a year previous to this). My intent wasn't to get into competition, but just to look good while dancing.

2) I did 5 rythym dances the first time around (although, actually, I did Rumba, Cha Cha, Mambo, WCS and Swing). Didn't do Bolero the first time.

3) My first competition was right after 9/11 - it was not well attended. I think I had 2-3 other competitors, if I remember correctly. I've only done 3 other comps since (I took a hiatus) and have always had at least 3-4 competitors, sometimes 6.

4) Well, I *thought* was doing newcomer the first time, but my teacher at the time put me into bronze. I didn't know until after I danced. Which was probably a good thing!


P.S. Warren - if you read this again -- I saw you on Saturday night. Next time, I'll introduce myself.
 
Not at all! I held my own in bronze, got a couple of first places...I was just a little annoyed because the dress I had was a little pidly $50 off-the-rack number and the women competing against me were in glitz. I felt a little "odd".

What are you aiming for??
 

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