the feeling of a dance...

during my time here on DF i've read many posts about particular dances; concerns about dancing, problems with steps or moves, certain techniques that people are working on, etc etc.

one thing that i've noticed is that there's a definite line between those who dance a dance and those who "feel" a dance. i see this line not only when i watch people dance but also when i read the posts here on DF.

i often notice that people get caught up in the steps and the techniques of each individual style of dancing. its like they create HUGE databases in their mind for each dance. cataloging every step and technique that defines each dance. but there's no cross reference between databases to bring together the similarites in movement and to recognize that its all the same thing, its dancing.

recently there was a thread about learning steps and how some people just learn a thousand different steps and that defines the dance for them. on the flip side there are those that take those steps and break them down into fundamental elements which can be put back together to make new steps thus allowing an infinite combination. in doing so they create a "feeling" for each dance.

i would like to look at it in the reverse direction... each song posesses a "feeling". if you allow that feeling to move through you and you move according to that feeling, then you have defined the steps and the technique for that dance. this way its not the dance defining the music but the music defining the dance. its like instead of saying "i'd like to dance a swing" you'd say "i'd like to dance to this song, what is it? OH! i think its a swing. i think i'll dance a swing." (i hope this made sense to someone out there)

waltz is smooth and flowing so move your body smoothly and flowingly. what is it that allows you to do this? how would you do this within yourself? that's waltz technique, your own waltz technique.

cha cha is rhythmic and exciting! so move your body with isolations, speed, and energy! you've now defined your own cha cha technique.

so on and so forth for each dance. if you move according to the feeling of each dance you have created that dance's technique within yourself. ask yourself "what would make me move smoothly?" think about it and figure it out and then supplement it with what you learn in dance class to help shape that internal understanding.

dance is art. art comes from the heart, not from the head. allow your heart to move you and use your head to embelish and emphasize what it is your heart wants to do.

i think it would be great meet all of you at a great Dance Forums Ball. it would be a superbe learning experience to see how everyone interprets the music and demonstrates their understandings and abilites.

wow... i msut have read and writen this over at least 5 times and i still don't think i accurately expressed what it was i was trying to say. but i'll put it out there to see what kind of response it get.

This is a great post, but since I'm sneaking in a few minutes between my breaks, i'll come back and elaborate. But here's another side of the story. I'd like to say as a beginner, i'm more concerned about my steps than the "feel" because 1) In partner dances, what I feel maybe not be what the other person is feeling and 2) if i don't know the steps, I doubt the dance will run smooth enough for me to "feel" anything. Think about it, when you constantly step on your partner, would you be in the mood of enjoying the dance? Probably, but for majority of the people, the answer is more likely no.

From my many years of piano, i've learned that most of the times (and doesn't apply to everyone), appreciation and enjoyment often comes AFTER you've mastered the technique. I have to be familiar with the technique before i can truly enjoy a piece of music. Are there people who can enjoy it from the very beginning even when they fumble across every key? Of course, but that's a rarity.

For me personally, the bottom line is: can I enjoy something that i'm not good at? When I'm dancing and constantly making mistakes that interrupts the dance?? To answer "yes" is quite difficult at this point. There are times that I just forget everything, no techniques, no cuban motion, no rise & fall and just purely enjoy the dance, but again, very seldom.

Just my $0.02

I suppose this is how I started on foxtrot. I've had the feeling. But the technique has been catching up. On the other dances, such as cha cha, I've learned the technique first and the feeling has been catching up. I've had the most fun on foxtrot all this time. I'm beginning to enjoy cha cha more and more. It's interesting that the person I enjoy cha cha with most is one who takes lessons and applies good technique. Neither of us set out to achieve any kind of feeling (as far as I know) but some how some feeling and style has come out of the technique. I guess my opinion is that it's a chicken and egg question. The feel of the dance is what inspires me and drives me. The technique helps me achieve that to greater degrees. I was able to dance the steps of cha cha and obtain a certain feel of the dance. But with cuban motion how much greater is that feeling. Right now it's time for me to capture some of the feeling of each dance and technique is being put on hold.
That's in part what my venture into salsa is about: A reach for the feel (some might say flava) of a dance and I'm thinking it will spill over into my ballroom dancing.

I think I agree with Lynn a bit about needing to master some of the technique. For example, often the 'feel' of foxtrot is constantly falling ahead of where you want to be in time and space. But if you learn the technique of how the body swings relative to the legs, and figure out what right side lead really means in terms of making the three step unblocked, then you start to have the capability to make the dance flow in a way that can match the music.

the reality is that people have different ways of learning, different ways of "feeling" and different goals in their dancing. it would be great if we could all let the 'feeling' of the dance guide us, but that's not everyone's forte.

I think as a follower it's a little easier to get the feeling first, and have the technique catch up later. When I dance with someone more advanced then myself, I can get the feeling from him. Then I know what it feels like, and know what I want to make my own dancing feel like. Learning the technique then enables me to create that feeling on my own, without depending on the leader to do it for me. But having had that feeling before, as I master new technique, I know right away the reason for it and what to do with it.

For me, dancing is primarily about feeling. I love musicality, moving to music, interpreting it, expressing myself, and I love the beautiful connection that can exist between two people moving as one. I still work very hard on technique, but as an enabler. Technique gives me the tools to make playtime that much more fun.

There was a thread that broached this subject but as it became somewhat and inexplicably contentious I don't think I'll go find it. But more or less it compared salsa and ballroom. An assertion was made that salsa dancers find the feel and pasion of the dance first, and then learn the technique to support that feel/passion. They look deep into each others eyes, wiggle around a lot, express whatever passion they are feeling. And then at some point start to learn technique to more fully express themselves.

It was also asserted that ballroom dancers learn steps and technique first. They work hard at this maybe even for years. Then at some point they start on the passion/feeling side. They start to express the emotions elicited by the music and their partner.

I believe dTas may be describing and suggesting my first paragraph.

To be fair, the opposite viewpoint in the thread I mentioned held that people don't join ballroom classes for the end purpose of learning technique. They don't say, "Hey, let's go learn some ballroom technique." They join because of the feelings or passion they feel. And I agree with dTas that this is often lost in favor of practicing technique. Maybe people do get it back eventually. But it gets lost a lot.

I think that it is the mindset that determines whether you go for feeling vs technique/steps first. For instance, some people are not open to feel until they know the steps.

skwiggy said:

For me, dancing is primarily about feeling. I love musicality, moving to music, interpreting it, expressing myself, and I love the beautiful connection that can exist between two people moving as one. I still work very hard on technique, but as an enabler. Technique gives me the tools to make playtime that much more fun.

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Ooh, skwiggy! You speak for me. Maybe I should drop by some time. It's just a short hop, skip, and jump from California to Maryland! :wink:

Oh! And,... :raisebro:

:lol:

i think the reason this topic can get contentious is the explicit and implicit judgments people attach to how they and others dance.

I guess one subtle point has to do with the individual's personality. For shy/introverts, chances of them go out and enjoy a dance with not-so-good technique coupled with a completely stranger is quite slim. I personally would prefer to tone down the passion factor until I have things under control - maybe it's just the perfectionist in me.

tacad said:

An assertion was made that salsa dancers find the feel and pasion of the dance first, and then learn the technique to support that feel/passion.

It was also asserted that ballroom dancers learn steps and technique first. They work hard at this maybe even for years. Then at some point they start on the passion/feeling side. They start to express the emotions elicited by the music and their partner.

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I've heard the same assertion made about Lindy Hop vs. Ballroom. That Lindy starts with style and feeling and then works towards technique. And that Ballroom starts with technique and then works towards style and feeling.

I don't know quite why this is. I dance Ballroom, and for a period of time I did a lot of Lindy Hop as well. I think I approached both the same way. But it might just be a matter of the different roots of the dances, translating into a different method of teaching? Or maybe it's because ballroom dancers learn so many dances, they focus on things that can carry over from dance to dance, like patterns and technique, first? Feeling and style is very individual to each dance. Maybe that's why it's easier to focus on feeling and style when you're learning one dance, and easier to focus on reusable concepts when you're focusing on many? Really I have no idea...

tacad said:

skwiggy said:

For me, dancing is primarily about feeling. I love musicality, moving to music, interpreting it, expressing myself, and I love the beautiful connection that can exist between two people moving as one. I still work very hard on technique, but as an enabler. Technique gives me the tools to make playtime that much more fun.

Click to expand...

Ooh, skwiggy! You speak for me. Maybe I should drop by some time. It's just a short hop, skip, and jump from California to Maryland! :wink:

Oh! And,... :raisebro:

:lol:

Click to expand...

Yes, come visit!!

Will you, by any chance be at USA Dance Nationals in St. Paul? We could meet in the middle.

in "so you think you can dance" there was that one fellow, the big guy, who essentially learned to dance by dancing in his living room (at least that's what he said).

this is what i'm talking about though. he made the cut. he learned how to move his body essentially teaching himself all the basic techniques necessary to dance. then was able to match his interpretation of dancing with what was required by the choreographer to dance a routine or interact with another person.

that was great! an inspiration.

skwiggy said:

Yes, come visit!!

Will you, by any chance be at USA Dance Nationals in St. Paul? We could meet in the middle.

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I didn't even make the Emerald Ball which is very close to me.
I'm sure I won't be making St. Paul. :lol: