Step projection - Proyección del paso

opendoor

Forum Master
The technique of projection comes from the martial arts and means to direct the energy to a certain point. It is the basic technique of leading in tango, it means to direct the free leg (your own and the follower's leg) into a certain direction. Leg extension is important, also the prolonging of the final weight transfer. Projection works in close embrace tango as well as in totally open dance forms. I think the following blog sums it up precisely.

https://www.tangoforge.com/knowledgebase/edge/argentine-tango-followers-technique

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The technique of projection comes from the martial arts and means to direct the energy to a certain point. It is the basic technique of leading in tango, it means to direct the free leg (your own and the follower's leg) into a certain direction. Leg extension is important, also the prolonging of the final weight transfer. Projection works in close embrace tango as well as in totally open dance forms. I think the following blog sums it up precisely.

https://www.tangoforge.com/knowledgebase/edge/argentine-tango-followers-technique

yeHMnYdqkySKXBgvwNBc0Zv55ScYOj9BiQrnZsHMyepl4hCPUNhWmTG7dQEahz0qe8qZQIxDHkcszK23m9ghFaAuahy20aQ8pAEVwdOLF7cq5RZ12Kat6NYjolvSi8743VHaNhKsNBHHRW0i4Q

I disagree (of course!).

I have always had doubts about martial arts analogies
being useful in tango.

Martial arts are about grounding to the point of anchoring with both feet,
tango is about grounding one foot for balance in movement.
Martial arts comprise two people separated in opposition and competition,
tango is two people in an embrace and co-operation. They are opposites.

This is not to say that martial arts exponents cannot dance,
indeed because they use their bodies in such a physical way,
new to tango they can have an in-built advantage over other
non-dancers but not necessarily over people who already dance.

You talk of prolonging the weight transfer, I aim for a delayed
weight transfer but as immediate as possible.
We are at opposite ends of the tango spectrum.
For me, tangoforge has little relevance.
 
Tangoforge said:
Do not respond to the lead by stepping, but by projecting.
Most teacher I had told this. Together with suggesting some resistance of the follower as long as she's not ready yet.
So I try to show an intention from my shoulders and less from my core at least if I start from zero.
 
Looking around at tangoforge I see that she proposes even a "second projection". For me that's a bit exaggerated and might be applicable to and useful for slow nuevo moves only.
Vio said:
Likewise at the end of every step, the follower’s newly freed old base leg stretches toward its former position. This is her second projection and this projection too may be used by a creative leader in playful and interesting ways.

https://www.tangoforge.com/knowledgebase/edge/followers-free-leg-belongs-to-leader/
 
I like what the article says about projection except when it comes to what muscles to use. It says to extend the leg with the psoas, but as I understand it, the psoas is responsible for bringing the thigh in front of yourself (flexion) and wouldn't be recruited for extension. It says to keep the muscles in your leg relaxed at all times, but I'd think the glutes and quads would need to work to get a nice straight leg.
 
..so is leading with the body, body to body as one. Steps follow..
The legs and/or feet don't lead, nor project - projection is show tango...

I´m not quiet sure, if we differ substantially or in the terminology we use (this ahead, John).

So for me projection belongs to close embrace tango and milonguero style. Show tango mostly depends on push and pull. Projection requires close body contact. The leader conveys information already before the following step, by subtle alignement of his chest.

Leading is not shoving, a follower is not a cart !
 
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I´m not quiet sure, if we differ substantially or in the terminology we use (this ahead, John).

So for me projection belongs to close embrace tango and milonguero style. Show tango mostly depends on push and pull. Projection requires close body contact. The leader conveys information already before the following step, by subtle alignement of his chest.

Leading is not shoving, a follower is not a cart !
No change, we still differ! :)

Milonguero never was a style, there were many ways of dancing
and a milonguero was an addicted frequenter of the milongas.
We can blame Susana Miller and Cacho Dante for the idea of it
being a style, in truth for them it was a descriptive term for marketing.
And I definitely don't like Cacho Dante's rigid body, stiff armed
way of dancing.

We both have the same idea of what step (or leg) projection is and
I reject that just as many if not all dances do which are danced with only
slow progression. Victor Sylvester called this "crush dancing" in ballroom
which was/is also called rhythm or merely social dancing because the
long striding ballroom dances are themselves anti-social in crowded
conditions just as step projection is in any crowded dance hall.

The most serious problem that this idea of step projection causes
is an inability of the dancers to dance in small spaces but it makes
rhythmical connection unlikely, or difficult at least, because all the
time interval is occupied with movement and weight transfer.
My dance maximises the time spent on one foot and minimises
the time spent on weight transfer. This way of dancing produces
something else entirely - a way of connecting or "feeling" the music.
 
Milonguero never was a style, there were many ways of dancing and a milonguero was an addicted frequenter of the milongas.
Yes - but it's a bit off topic:
"Salon" never was a style, there are many kinds of locations and a salon is one of them.
"Nuevo" never was a style, it was just new for the old people or they had already forgotten it.
;)
 
We can blame Susana Miller and Cacho Dante for the idea of it being a style, in truth for them it was a descriptive term for marketing.
And I definitely don't like Cacho Dante's rigid body, stiff armed way of dancing.
From my private lesson with Susana Miller last weekend can I definitely report to you, that if there is one thing that she does not like and does not accept, then it's a rigid body, stiff armed way of dancing!
 
From my private lesson with Susana Miller last weekend can I definitely report to you, that if there is one thing that she does not like and does not accept, then it's a rigid body, stiff armed way of dancing!
Hooray! But then she has the experience of dancing and teaching
with Cacho Dante many years ago. So she has the basis to compare.
 
From my private lesson with Susana Miller last weekend can I definitely report to you, that if there is one thing that she does not like and does not accept, then it's a rigid body, stiff armed way of dancing!
I came away with the same thing from a group lesson with her. Although I'm of two minds about her approach to posture and stance for the leader.
 
Yes - but it's a bit off topic:
"Salon" never was a style, there are many kinds of locations and a salon is one of them.
"Nuevo" never was a style, it was just new for the old people or they had already forgotten it.
;)
Nuevo would seem to be a definite style (or approach) of dancing, given that it positions itself in clear contradistinction to tango estilo del centro and tango estilo del centro. There's a definite stylistic line from Naveira to Chicho and other practitioners.
 
I came away with the same thing from a group lesson with her. Although I'm of two minds about her approach to posture and stance for the leader.
Out of interest, are you able to briefly categorize her recommended posture and stance for men and your alternative viewpoint?
 

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