Dave Bailey
Active Member
Alas, they're only available to the Certified Ones.
The Ocho Cortado Thread
- Thread starter Zoopsia59
- Start date
Alas, they're only available to the Certified Ones.
¿Certifiably what?
Alas, they're only available to the Certified Ones.
I thought the only test we had to pass was the sobriety test and that there was even some wiggle room on that one...
To me, the ocho cortado IS a sequence, not a step. Just as a molinete is a sequence. So trying to figure out which part is the real ocho cortado is moot.
opendoor
Forum Master
Re: seperate out what exactly makes it
Hi Gssh, as I have posted at the beginning of this thread, I learnt it Ampster´s way,too: the stopping and rebouncing action is the heart of the OC ("cortado" because naturally the pivot of that front8 would have followed).
(may I add) ... which is called forced cross.
cheers
OD
Hi Gssh, as I have posted at the beginning of this thread, I learnt it Ampster´s way,too: the stopping and rebouncing action is the heart of the OC ("cortado" because naturally the pivot of that front8 would have followed).
(may I add) ... which is called forced cross.
cheers
OD
Dave Bailey
Active Member
Yes... I think there are some (a very few) "sequences" in tango - the 3-steps-to-a-cross, the molinete / giro, and the ocho cortado. They're basically sets of steps which dancers do so commonly that they've become ubiquitous as sequences.
opendoor
Forum Master
bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
I will see what I can find on youtube..
jantango
Well-Known Member
The video demonstrates what she thinks is ocho cortado or ocho milonguero. First of all, they don't dance with an embrace, but separated. Only the milongueros who danced in the city confiterias use this to see to their blind side while dancing.
Several years ago El Once Tango News by Paul Lange (London) published an interview in which Fabian Salas spoke about Gustavo Naveira watching the milongueros trying to figure out what they did on the dance floor. He labeled what is seen in the above video as "ocho cortado." Cut eight is what it means. Labels stick.
An ocho milonguero is something entirely different. It's an ocho with no pivots. Milongueros who danced in the 1950s and yet today maintain the embrace for the dance, so the woman does ochos without pivots or twisting her body.
This video is another example of instructors teaching with no first-hand knowledge of BsAs milongas. She takes a long step past her partner and turns her body. Incorrect. Toes remain pointed towards the partner while dancing. The body never turns. A milonguero's embrace doesn't accommodate any change in body position between the two.
Several years ago El Once Tango News by Paul Lange (London) published an interview in which Fabian Salas spoke about Gustavo Naveira watching the milongueros trying to figure out what they did on the dance floor. He labeled what is seen in the above video as "ocho cortado." Cut eight is what it means. Labels stick.
An ocho milonguero is something entirely different. It's an ocho with no pivots. Milongueros who danced in the 1950s and yet today maintain the embrace for the dance, so the woman does ochos without pivots or twisting her body.
This video is another example of instructors teaching with no first-hand knowledge of BsAs milongas. She takes a long step past her partner and turns her body. Incorrect. Toes remain pointed towards the partner while dancing. The body never turns. A milonguero's embrace doesn't accommodate any change in body position between the two.
I have to agree with you on this one Jan. My first response was "How can this be milonguero anything if they are in such an open embrace?"
It also seemed to me that she was actually leading the whole thing even though she is doing the follower's part. You would think she could find a leader to demonstrate with her on video that can actually lead it rather than having her backlead it. This is especially apparent when they do the 2nd close-up of the feet. She is so obviously leading that for a minute I thought they had switched roles and she was now doing the leader's part which would only add to a viewer's confusion. The fact that they turned the other way for that segment added to my confusion over whether they had switched roles but I didn't consciously wonder until I saw her feet leading his. (I hadn't paid attention to their arm positions as they changed orientation to the camera)
I too never think of the ocho milonguero and the ocho cortada as being the same thing, but I have heard other people (rightly or wrongly) use "ocho milonguero" when they mean what I consider to be ocho cortado. We have a whole discussion going on another thread about what exactly constitutes Ocho cortado, and even when we're all talking about the same thing, we still don't agree on exactly which part of the sequence (or all of it) constitutes one ocho cortado. Because I don't speak Spanish, I wasn't sure exactly what she was saying about the two, so I gave her the benefit of the doubt on that detail.
Personally, I have a pet peeve with step demonstrations that show the move in a sequence that you don't need to do, accompanied by counts. It gives the impression that you have to use the move this way. However, again, I don't know what she is saying, so maybe the usage of ocho cortado is explained as more versatile than it appears from just watching.
Me... I just dance what I'm led in the style I'm led. But even then, you're right.. I don't step past the leaders body, with my reaching foot and chest pointed beyond him rather than towards him.
The studio and camera work are nice though...
sixela
Well-Known Member
I think you mean "relative to the other partner's body"
.That's a fairly restrictive view. It's certainly true for estilo del centro (and almost defines it) but slightly less so for some V-shaped close embraces (and I can't seriously think that you'd ever contemplate telling some of the porteños who use such an embrace --or anyone who doesn't adhere to your personal style preferences-- they're not milongueros; them's fightin' words).
While the ocho milonguero is not used outside of the circle of people you can fairly call milongueros, not all "milongueros" will only do "ochos milonguero"; you can't just reverse an implication.
Of course, that embrace in the video isn't a close embrace at all.