How do you count Paso Doble?

[Benjy]

Personally, I count paso as a waste of time...

I see this reaction a lot. I don't know if you're joking, but a lot of people I know genuinly think this way. In my mind, Paso is a litmus test. You can be good at Paso while sucking at every other dance, but not be bad at paso and be more than superficially good at the other dances. Let me explain.

Paso contains everything that you need to be good at the other dances. Partnering, posture, shape, speed, and grounding. The other dances have lots of things specific to each of them, knee and hip action. So you can't really be good at any of them without having all the components of a good paso. People are bad at Paso because it receives so little emphasis.

 

[etp777]

Oh, I'm just joking. With limited amount of lesson time I get in, only so many dances I can do, and Paso just hasn't yet made the cut is all (mainly because I haven't changed my main 7 dances since I started).

 

[contracheck]

I am trying to prepare a complete PD routine observing the limitation in the syllabus figures and I would very much appreciate your help.

Syllabus figures allowed:

BASIC MOVEMENT
SUR PLACE
CHASSES
HUIT
SIXTEEN
SEPARATION
ATTACK
TWIST TURN
BANDERILLAS
GRAND CIRCLE
PROMENADE
PROMENADE CLOSE
PROMENADE TO COUNTER PROMENADE

Here is my routine:

Introduction: 8 beats

Sur Place – 4
Chasses to the left – 4
Huit – 8
PP to CPP – 8
Promenade Close – 4
-----------------------------------------------------
Promenade – 8
Banderillas – 16
Twist Turn - 8
Sixteen – 16
Attack – 4
-----------------------------------------------------------
Separation – 8
Sur place turning to the left– 4
Chasses to the left – 6
Huit – 8
PP to CPP – 8
Promenade Close – 4
Chasses to the right – 4
Promenade – 8
Banderillas – 16
Promenade link – 4
----------------------------------------------------------
Sur place turning to the right – 4
Chasses to the left– 4
Huit – 8
PP to CPP – 8
Promedande close – 4
Chasses to the right – 4
Promenade – 8
Banderillas – 16
Twist Turn – 8
Sixteen – 16
Attack – 4+1

What is your verdict?

My verdict is that this count is guilty of incorrectness. See laingal's post (#5) in this thread.

 

[etale]

etale, are you looking for input on whether the counts are right or if the routine looks good?

Both things.

My verdict is that this count is guilty of incorrectness. See laingal's post (#5) in this thread.

I read all the posts before posting myself.
The problem resides in the very few syllabus figures that can be used. How would you coreograph the 8 10 8 6 8 8 8 8 6 (2nd highlight) for example?
This is why I asked for your advice.

 

[contracheck]

I read all the posts before posting myself.
The problem resides in the very few syllabus figures that can be used. How would you coreograph the 8 10 8 6 8 8 8 8 6 (2nd highlight) for example?
This is why I asked for your advice.

It's hard for me to describe these steps in writing, but I'll try to describe my competition syllabus routine. This routine contains steps in Bronze to Gold.

Traveling Spin 8
Grand Circle 10
Huit 8
First 4 steps of 16 followed by 2 steps of Spanish Line 6
Flamenco Tap followed by a Spainsh Line 8
Make 1/2 turn followed by a Spanish Line 8
Flamenco Tap 8
Promeande Link (4 steps) plus 4 steps of beat-filling Chasse 8
Drag Chasse into the 2nd Hi Lite

This routine works because my male coach and I have perfected it, and I practice it all day everyday. If anyone finds errors in it I'll hang myself on the highest beam in the studio.

 

[emkey]

im confused cause I'm not exactly sure which part of the espana canni you consider the hilite...

I counted through espana canni from casaphon's cafe paradiso (what they used in the 2005 grandslam) up to what is usually heard in competition and their are three hilites unless you don't count the first hilite I counted as a hilite. if there are three hilites in this normal play then there are atleast 4 or 5 total hilites in espana canni which they Rarely but on certain occasions Ive seen on youtube play and dance through in competition (but Ive only seen pro competitions do that).

If we're talking about the part where Eugene and Maria do a set of spot turns disconnected accross the floor I counted that to be their third hilite (which is somewhere at 1:22 with the crescendo having trumpets blown) though true it isn't exactly a hilite still entertaining and they win each time anyways... lol

 

[contracheck]

im confused cause I'm not exactly sure which part of the espana canni you consider the hilite...

I counted through espana canni from casaphon's cafe paradiso (what they used in the 2005 grandslam) up to what is usually heard in competition and their are three hilites unless you don't count the first hilite I counted as a hilite. if there are three hilites in this normal play then there are atleast 4 or 5 total hilites in espana canni which they Rarely but on certain occasions Ive seen on youtube play and dance through in competition (but Ive only seen pro competitions do that).

If we're talking about the part where Eugene and Maria do a set of spot turns disconnected accross the floor I counted that to be their third hilite (which is somewhere at 1:22 with the crescendo having trumpets blown) though true it isn't exactly a hilite still entertaining and they win each time anyways... lol

My count, which is, incidently, much like latingal's, is based on Spanish Gypsy Dance, which I like better than Espana cani. Your count may be correct for Espana cani, I don't know. If this is the case, I apologize. I need help from better angels like Nik or pasopaul to clarify this confusion. Can someone help us?

Btw, in my Spanish Gypsy Dance, the first Hi Lite is at about 42 sec from the beginning and the second one is at about 1 min 17 sec from the beginning.

 

[emkey]

uhm isnt espana cani and spanish gypsy the same? (check wiki). I know their the same composition and always though that spanish gypsy is just the english translation

España Cañí (meaning "Gipsy Spain" in Spanish language) is a famous instrumental Spanish piece of pasodoble music by Pascual Marquina Narro (1873-1948). The song was written around 1925. It is also known as the Spanish Gypsy Dance.
Its main refrain (eight bars of arpeggiated chords that go from E to F to G and back) is arguably the best known snippet of Spanish music ever, and is popular worldwide.
Besides its traditional use as background music in bullfights in Spain and elsewhere, it is sometimes played (refrain only) to arouse local crowds in baseball matches in the United States. The Beatles in their early club days in Liverpool played the song.
It is often used by the Hawthorne Caballeros Drum and Bugle Corps as a closer.
Several arrangements of the tune are often used for the ballroom Paso Doble dance (to the point that, amongst ballroom dancers, it is known as "the paso doble song" as it is very commonly played in competition). -wikipedia

if its the same then we're talking about, then it should be the same count as its the same song

 

[Addicted2Rhinestones]

I just did a quick count and it looks about right to me. I'm assuming you're dancing through the first two highlights on only holding on the third (last highlight)

 

[contracheck]

uhm isnt espana cani and spanish gypsy the same? (check wiki). I know their the same composition and always though that spanish gypsy is just the english translation


if its the same then we're talking about, then it should be the same count as its the same song

I have been wondering for a long time if Espana cani and Spanish Gypsy Dance are the one and same song or they are different songs. My favorite Espana cani is the one played by Andre Rieu and Spanish Gypsy is the one in Ultimate Ballroom (Latin Best of Best). I compared the beat patterens of these two songs on the music program Sound Forge. The beat patterens are largely the same but there are also significant differences, including the all important high light locations. If your proof says that they are the same song, I can't dispute it. I therefore must conclude that the differences I see come from the discretion of the musicians. In other words, the same song does not necessarilly have the same counts. If I practice on above Spanish Gypsy but the competition plays Rieu's Espana cani, I most likely do my dramatic and spectacular high lights at wrong times, causing a great embarassment. So, in Paso, we should stay loose and make a split second decision depending on the music played.

 

[emkey]

I have been wondering for a long time if Espana cani and Spanish Gypsy Dance are the one and same song or they are different songs. My favorite Espana cani is the one played by Andre Rieu and Spanish Gypsy is the one in Ultimate Ballroom (Latin Best of Best). I compared the beat patterens of these two songs on the music program Sound Forge. The beat patterens are largely the same but there are also significant differences, including the all important high light locations. If your proof says that they are the same song, I can't dispute it. I therefore must conclude that the differences I see come from the discretion of the musicians. In other words, the same song does not necessarilly have the same counts. If I practice on above Spanish Gypsy but the competition plays Rieu's Espana cani, I most likely do my dramatic and spectacular high lights at wrong times, causing a great embarassment. So, in Paso, we should stay loose and make a split second decision depending on the music played.

Lol Im guessing this is why some people just call it the paso song cause well I think espana canis and spanish gypsys out there can be inter changed in albums and the titling just depends on how the arranger wants to say it. Your version of Espana Cani from the Ultimate album may also be different from the Espana cani in the casaphon album. both have the same hilites though according to the one I have. THERE ARE JUST SO MANY DAMN VERSIONS OF THIS SONG! hahahahahaha

I listened to andre rieu and counting to it its actually the same as well a bit slower though.

lol can I just ask... Does anyone know any alternative paso doble?

 

[contracheck]

I listened to andre rieu and counting to it its actually the same as well a bit slower though.

lol can I just ask... Does anyone know any alternative paso doble?

I hate fast Paso. It makes me look hectic, nervous, and frightened matador. In Paso, I want to look confident with the aurora that "I am in control here."

As for the alternates, I like Titanic and Don't Cry for Me Argentina. It looks like van Amstel likes Gonna Fly Now and Final Countdown because he choreographed these Pasos in DWTS. Several dancers also like Malguena, but I find it a hard song to dance to.

It's strange that the album GOLD STAR BALLROOM lists Espana cani and Spanish Gypsy Dance. If they are the same song, why does the album contains those two songs under differen names. This GOLD STAR BALLROOM and aKLAUS HALLEN album are dedicated to Paso

 

[emkey]

I hate fast Paso. It makes me look hectic, nervous, and frightened matador. In Paso, I want to look confident with the aurora that "I am in control here."

As for the alternates, I like Titanic and Don't Cry for Me Argentina. It looks like van Amstel likes Gonna Fly Now and Final Countdown because he choreographed these Pasos in DWTS. Several dancers also like Malguena, but I find it a hard song to dance to.

It's strange that the album GOLD STAR BALLROOM lists Espana cani and Spanish Gypsy Dance. If they are the same song, why does the album contains those two songs under differen names. This GOLD STAR BALLROOM and aKLAUS HALLEN album are dedicated to Paso

maybe (since most of the ballroom albums I know) are compilations from different artists and orchestras the arranger and the conductor of that espana cani/ spanish gypsy named it espana cani after the spanish name.

I've heard the paso doble version of my heart will go on lol really funny

 

[contracheck]

maybe (since most of the ballroom albums I know) are compilations from different artists and orchestras the arranger and the conductor of that espana cani/ spanish gypsy named it espana cani after the spanish name.

I've heard the paso doble version of my heart will go on lol really funny

Have you realized that you and I are primarilly the only ones who understand Paso well enough to discuss it? This means that you and I are the only all around dancers, and we should be proud of that.

 

[chachachacat]

Yes, be proud, throw those shoulders back, stick that proud chest out, and stomp about loudly!