I want to buy my first tango shoes

[JohnEm]

It's odd: I have some very light split-sole Bloch dance sneakers, with virtually no heel, and also some Arris Allen raw leather-soled shoes which are quite substantial and have a 2" cuban heel. I feel equally stable in either, and couldn't really say that I prefer one over the other. I would probably find the sneakers rather hard on the soles of the feet for an entire night's dancing, but that's not what I bought them for.

Not so odd actually.
I too have some split sole dance trainers (Rumpf) which like many
trainers have only little heel height. I am conscious though of the need
for forward projection, something many teachers seem to avoid saying,
and you need a shoe that at least doesn't sit your weight back onto
the heel. I have insoles in the Rumpf shoes for the hardness reason and
foam inside the heel to help bias my weight more forward retaining
some heel weight for stability.

It's a better solution for a day of tango/practice before a full evening
than the Vidadance shoes.

My experience is probably not typical, though, as BR rise & fall (and to a lesser extent) Latin ball-flat footwork does wonders for developing strong foot muscles, and hygiene and safety issues apart, I'd probably be quite happy dancing bare foot - that would save money on shoes!

Like you, I'm lucky with strong feet and ankles, all of which helps stability.
I can and have successfully danced barefoot which is really weird
as we are obsessing about shoes. There is though something different
about how our body must engage the muscles when barefoot and
it certainly does feel different.

 

[UKDancer]

I am conscious though of the need
for forward projection, something many teachers seem to avoid saying,
and you need a shoe that at least doesn't sit your weight back onto
the heel.

If I felt that any shoe did that, I wouldn't wear it for dancing, but of course I am lucky again, as years of BR dancing has ingrained a forward balance in the carriage of my weight that I no longer have to actively think about.

 

[bordertangoman]

It's odd: I have some very light split-sole Bloch dance sneakers, with virtually no heel, and also some Arris Allen raw leather-soled shoes which are quite substantial and have a 2" cuban heel. I feel equally stable in either, and couldn't really say that I prefer one over the other. I would probably find the sneakers rather hard on the soles of the feet for an entire night's dancing, but that's not what I bought them for.

My experience is probably not typical, though, as BR rise & fall (and to a lesser extent) Latin ball-flat footwork does wonders for developing strong foot muscles, and hygiene and safety issues apart, I'd probably be quite happy dancing bare foot - that would save money on shoes!

I have danced in foot undies but not only in workshops...

 

[jantango]

I have danced in foot undies but not only in workshops...

You would not be allowed to dance in Lo de Celia Tango Club where sneakers are not allowed. You should know this in the event you ever travel to Buenos Aires. JohnEm came prepared.

 

[Zoopsia59]

I'm merely pointing out that your blanket recommendation doesn't
apply to everyone.

Maybe not, but your post did read somewhat like a blanket condemnation.

And this is coming from someone who has no personal knowledge or opinion of the shoes themselves nor really strong opinions of the shoes leaders need. It's just the way I read the posts.

 

[JohnEm]

Vidadance/Vida Mia Shoes

Maybe not, but your post did read somewhat like a blanket condemnation.

In good faith I bought them for tango based on the quoted
recommendations which the supplier endlessly trots out.
That was my mistake.

In answer to a blanket recommendation I think there are issues
people should know about - then they can make up their own minds.
Free speech and all that! And as a final point, the supplier of these
shoes knows what my issues are and prefers to ignore them -
- so can anyone else if they choose.

Just so you know, they seem to be being sold in the US as
a Vida Mia shoe here for instance:
http://www.guaranteedfittangoshoes....ist.asp?idCategory=34&curPage=1&sortField=pop
where they are being classed as dance sneaker, not a tango shoe.
However I wouldn't recommend buying them on line.

And this is coming from someone who has no personal knowledge or
opinion of the shoes themselves nor really strong opinions of the shoes
leaders need. It's just the way I read the posts.

Read it as you like, I have no further comment.

 

[ant]

I have bought VidaDance shoes; they are very comfortable and they fit me well; as I find shoes usually too wide once the length is right.
http://www.vidadance.com/

Originally Posted by JohnEm
There is no such thing as a universal dance shoe as these are being sold. They are quite well made and an attractive design but one width only and while they are narrow enough for BTM they aren't wide enough for me.

The Vidadance shoes seem to be popular in the UK. However I have found the same problem as JohnEm regarding the width of these shoes. They do seem to have been made with a narrow fit so I suspect that they will not suit people that normally buy wider fitting shoes.

There is too much shoe in front of my toe as a consequence.

I am not sure whether this is a consequence of the narrow fitting but the other major comment people have made about these shoes is that they catch their big toe inside the structure of the front of the shoe.

Maybe I'd like a slightly higher heel

This is the second time this week where a post has suggested a higher heel. I think UKDancer mentioned a Cuban heel as well in a different thread.
I have always thought that a flat shoe is best because I have never had an issue with forward projection. Do other leaders have a preference of heel type?

Regarding the OP I find that putting a suede dance bottom on a thin soled trainer (either Puma for narrow fit or Lonsdale for wide fit) works well for me.

 

[AndaBien]

...This is the second time this week where a post has suggested a higher heel. I think UKDancer mentioned a Cuban heel as well in a different thread.
I have always thought that a flat shoe is best because I have never had an issue with forward projection. Do other leaders have a preference of heel type?...

This seems odd to me. If I was a block of wood, a higher heel would surely tilt me forward. In my mind forward projection doesn't come from the heels, it comes from the chest.

 

[UKDancer]

This seems odd to me. If I was a block of wood, a higher heel would surely tilt me forward. In my mind forward projection doesn't come from the heels, it comes from the chest.

I agree. But surely, a built-up heel is traditional for tango leaders, but no longer fashionable?

 

[JohnEm]

This seems odd to me. If I was a block of wood, a higher heel would surely tilt me forward. In my mind forward projection doesn't come from the heels, it comes from the chest.

None of this is as scientific as we make out to be as a consequence
of writing about a dynamic dance of movement by humans and not
blocks of wood nor even pillars!

The forward projection of the chest is helped by a combination
of keeping the shoulders back, not breaking at the waist (though
this is just as much for preservation of the back), and some overall
forward intent which has to come from the floor and the ankles
if your tendons and muscles allow. Slightly tilting the platform
of your foot (the sole of your shoe) allows you to lean a little bit
and have the heel under you for stability.

People's experiences are bound to be different because we all have
slightly different experiences and abilities and/or wear and tear.

Ladies have their high heels for just the same reason - a high heel
enables a greater tilt when appropriate yet the heel of the foot
can still be in contact with the heel of the shoe which is in contact
with the floor. That's my understanding and the practical results
of partners help confirm it.

 

[JohnEm]

The Vidadance shoes seem to be popular in the UK. However I have found the same problem as JohnEm regarding the width of these shoes. They do seem to have been made with a narrow fit so I suspect that they will not suit people that normally buy wider fitting shoes.

I am not sure whether this is a consequence of the narrow fitting but the other major comment people have made about these shoes is that they catch their big toe inside the structure of the front of the shoe.

This is possibly because the sole is not the full with of the shoe and the
leather is effectively wrapped around and under the foot and stitched
to the undercut sole. I have felt that too and problems with the position
of the split sole catching the ball of the foot uncomfortably. That possibly
would not be a problem if I hadn't bought a shoe longer than my foot to
get the necessary width and then exacerbated by my modifications to
the original very low heel height.

 

[Zoopsia59]

For those of you searching for a dance sneaker that doesn't cramp your forefoot, I LOVE my Sansha Dynamo split sole sneaks. It could be that they are just the perfect construction for my foot, but they do seem to have wider front part.

They do not come in half-sizes and since I like my shoes snug, I ignored their recommendation to buy the next size up. So they are on the verge of being too short, but they are still wider than I really need. (but not enough to mean they don't feel secure)

They also come with removable insoles that you could cut in half to boost the heel slightly or replace completely with something you prefer. I took them out and leave them out (since I bought the size down from my half size)

They do not have sueded soles.. they have that sole material that isn't really like a rubber sneaker sole, but isn't slick either. IF I'm wearing them to follow on a sticky floor, I cover the front with a cut up sock or use baby powder. On slippery floors, they are fine. And I like them for leading.

They also don't have that ugly bulky look that so many Dance sneakers have.

http://www.sansha.com/ShowModel.php?id=54

 

[JohnEm]

They do not have sueded soles.. they have that sole material that
isn't really like a rubber sneaker sole, but isn't slick either.
IF I'm wearing them to follow on a sticky floor, I cover the front
with a cut up sock or use baby powder. On slippery floors, they are fine.
And I like them for leading.

They also don't have that ugly bulky look
that so many Dance sneakers have.

The Rumpf dance trainers are similarly non-ugly, split soled, and
with a hard composition sole that seem to have both control
and spinability. Mine seem nearest to the 1556 Flite seen here:
http://worldofdanceshoes.com/rumpf-sparrow-split-sole-sneaker-1573
Edit: original dance sneaker link may have moved and this model 1573 seems to be be what they offer now.
also available in half sizes which Vidadance/Via Dance are not.
While I pack the heel for tango (it's not really high enough)
the actual sole is really flat and very stable though inevitably
it feels different to a solid leather soled street/tango shoe.

I'm afraid my reaction to a sticky floor is not to spin or pivot
but to step. Talcum (Baby) powder is not liked by many and
can be dangerous to some. And though I don't much like the
idea of a sock over the shoe, and I've never tried it, I think
I'd prefer it to the talcum powder which can produce
variable slip and unexpected results.

 

[Zoopsia59]

I'm afraid my reaction to a sticky floor is not to spin or pivot
but to step. Talcum (Baby) powder is not liked by many and
can be dangerous to some. And though I don't much like the
idea of a sock over the shoe, and I've never tried it, I think
I'd prefer it to the talcum powder which can produce
variable slip and unexpected results.

If I'm following, I don't have the option of not pivoting, since almost everything requires some pivoting and if you tell a leader to eliminate all those things, he's going to wish he hadn't asked you to dance!

There are actually a few places here where we talc the whole floor in summer because the humidity makes them so sticky. When I want talc for my sneaks in other venues, I'm usually not the only one, and there will be a little talc pile in a corner for people to get it on their shoes without it creating a problem for those who don't want it.

I don't usually plan on putting a sock over the toe end of my shoe, but I carry the cut socks just in case I am having to choose between doing that and not dancing. Again, this is only for following. I don't have to worry about not being able to do what I'm led if I'm doing the leading. Also, the sock piece I use leaves a bit of toe exposed in case i need the grip in an emergency, and only goes past the front sole into my arch. They do not cover my heel. This is mostly a last resort, not a typical scenario. But if I'm wearing sneaks for an all day workshop where heels would be tiring, or when I'm having a problem that prevents me from wearing heels, I need a backup plan in case the floor isn't "fast".

 

[Zoopsia59]

The Rumpf dance trainers are similarly non-ugly, split soled, and
with a hard composition sole that seem to have both control
and spinability. Mine seem nearest to the 1556 Flite seen here:
http://worldofdanceshoes.com/rumpf-sparrow-split-sole-sneaker-1573
Edit: original dance sneaker link may have moved and this model 1573 seems to be be what they offer now.

Those shoes (in the link) seem to have extremely nubby soles or something. The Sansha's are almost smooth without "tread". Like if you put your foot in paint and made a step, it wouldn't have a lot of pattern to the imprint.