Minor rant: dance loyalty
- Thread starter Dance Monkey
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Indiana_Jay
Active Member
Guess I'm lucky. I've been declined (although not often ... not because I'm good but because accepting invitations from everyone is the social norm in the venues I frequent) but I've never been dumped in favor of a second invitation. The closest thing to that was when a follower agreed in advance to dance the "next tango" or something like that, and for some reason it didn't happen ... probably she forgot about the reservation. It didn't bother me.
Generally, however, I don't make reservations. I escort my previous partner off the floor and then visit the drinking fountain while all the other leads choose their partners for the next dance. Then I choose one from the remaining followers, trying to dance with as many different followers as possible. Perhaps that's why I haven't had the problem ... all the competition is already on the dance floor!
Of course, this strategy means I might never dance with the most popular followers in the room, whether that popularity is based on dance skills, personality or looks. But that's OK with me. I'm there to dance.
If however, a follower were to accept an invitation to dance and then immediately go dance with someone else for that same song, I would be, at best, dismayed and would probably be less likely to invite that follower in the future.
If the OP wants to know how to prevent such behavior, I'd say probably the only thing to do is find another venue and/or follow my pattern and let all the other leaders get their partners first.
I hope the problem isn't that the followers feel they need to be rescued from the OP because if that's the case, it will probably be impossible to confirm. Rare is the follower who will admit that's what's going on. But if I were the OP, I would not completely rule it out ... especially if it happens at a new venue.
I do have a mental blacklist. Once, a follower declined, claiming to not know that dance. She was more advanced than me but I gave her the benefit of the doubt and said I'd return later. When I approached her later, she obviously avoided me. That behavior made it clear that, for whatever reason, she did not want to dance with me. I never invited her again. Had she just once invited me to dance, she would have been off the blacklist.
Another follower danced with me several times. She never turned me down but I interpreted her behavior and body language to mean that she didn't enjoy dancing with me. After three or for dances like that, I put her on the mental "do not ask" list. All she has to do to get off that list is ask me to dance.
I'm reconsidering this mental blacklist behavior, however, thanks to DancinBean's message:
This message touched me, because I would be incredibly saddened to discover that a follower is incredibly hurt by the absence of invitations from me. Now that I think about it, it's probably better for me to erase the mental blacklist and keep giving even rude followers more chances. The worst that can happen won't kill me. And such behavior would be reflective of the grace I've known through my faith. Thanks, DancinBean for helping me see that.
Generally, however, I don't make reservations. I escort my previous partner off the floor and then visit the drinking fountain while all the other leads choose their partners for the next dance. Then I choose one from the remaining followers, trying to dance with as many different followers as possible. Perhaps that's why I haven't had the problem ... all the competition is already on the dance floor!
Of course, this strategy means I might never dance with the most popular followers in the room, whether that popularity is based on dance skills, personality or looks. But that's OK with me. I'm there to dance.
If however, a follower were to accept an invitation to dance and then immediately go dance with someone else for that same song, I would be, at best, dismayed and would probably be less likely to invite that follower in the future.
If the OP wants to know how to prevent such behavior, I'd say probably the only thing to do is find another venue and/or follow my pattern and let all the other leaders get their partners first.
I hope the problem isn't that the followers feel they need to be rescued from the OP because if that's the case, it will probably be impossible to confirm. Rare is the follower who will admit that's what's going on. But if I were the OP, I would not completely rule it out ... especially if it happens at a new venue.
I do have a mental blacklist. Once, a follower declined, claiming to not know that dance. She was more advanced than me but I gave her the benefit of the doubt and said I'd return later. When I approached her later, she obviously avoided me. That behavior made it clear that, for whatever reason, she did not want to dance with me. I never invited her again. Had she just once invited me to dance, she would have been off the blacklist.
Another follower danced with me several times. She never turned me down but I interpreted her behavior and body language to mean that she didn't enjoy dancing with me. After three or for dances like that, I put her on the mental "do not ask" list. All she has to do to get off that list is ask me to dance.
I'm reconsidering this mental blacklist behavior, however, thanks to DancinBean's message:
This message touched me, because I would be incredibly saddened to discover that a follower is incredibly hurt by the absence of invitations from me. Now that I think about it, it's probably better for me to erase the mental blacklist and keep giving even rude followers more chances. The worst that can happen won't kill me. And such behavior would be reflective of the grace I've known through my faith. Thanks, DancinBean for helping me see that.
toothlesstiger
Well-Known Member
As I said on another thread (One dance wonders), I suggested that, along with everything else, the lady ask me to dance once in a while, so that I know that she really wants to dance with me, and isn't just being polite..
Not that I have to worry about that where I dance, the ladies are not shy about asking...
Not that I have to worry about that where I dance, the ladies are not shy about asking...
You reminded me of one of my own old posts:
http://www.dance-forums.com/showpost.php?p=584088&postcount=265
wooh
Well-Known Member
This post has made my night!
wooh
Well-Known Member
I would definitely say your maturity level is a constant.
Dance Monkey
New Member
I love followers like you. I make every effort to dance with anyone who is trying to follow. Once in a while I'll throw out something more complex, but if it does not go as planned I will laugh and declare that I need to work on that move some more, and we will get it next time. I think I'll go on more of the ballroom crowd days... Maybe I'll find better company there.
The funny thing is that one of my friends just asked what should she do if she is confused by two guys. I almost told her to ignore them both and come dance with me
. I told her to not make a decision, just tell the guys to work it out among themselves. She then went into what happens when the guy reserves a dance, but goes for someone else when the song is up... Etc... I think I have found a new social partner.DancinBean
New Member
Indiana Jay - I can't possibly take any credit for your inspirational take on my comment. It did bring tears to my eyes to see someone so incredibly gracious, however - and if we are ever at the same ballroom venue, I would LOVE to have a dance or two (or ten) with you. 
As to the original issue, is some of the misunderstanding going on in this thread because Dance Monkey wanted merely to vent and not to "solve" the problem? (I.e., that whole "I need you to listen" vs "I need you to fix" dichotomy?) Not trying to dredge anything back up, just wondering if that might be at the root of some of the dischord...but regardless, Dance Monkey, I'm glad you've found a new partner, I hope things go well with her.
As to the original issue, is some of the misunderstanding going on in this thread because Dance Monkey wanted merely to vent and not to "solve" the problem? (I.e., that whole "I need you to listen" vs "I need you to fix" dichotomy?) Not trying to dredge anything back up, just wondering if that might be at the root of some of the dischord...but regardless, Dance Monkey, I'm glad you've found a new partner, I hope things go well with her.
Andreth
Member
I recall a situation once where an old known sort of creeper had plopped down next to me and was talking to me after several dances with me, making it difficult for me to look available to other leads, but one whom I knew was there (from my studio whom I like to dance with) I think saw my plight and came up and held out his hand to me to dance. As soon as the guy sitting next to me saw this invitation coming, he hurriedly turned toward me and said, "Do you want to dance?" But I was already halfway out of my chair to go dance with the other lead. Technically, he "asked" me first verbally, but the other had invited me onto the floor first. Since I did not dance with the one who had been sitting next to me, after that dance he came up to me furious and told me that he was done with this nonsense and that although really enjoys dancing with me I'd have to do the asking if I wanted to dance with him from now on. Frankly, I was relieved. I never really wanted to dance with him ever, but my general policy is not to refuse a dance unless I have a really serious reason. So...while I guess I could see why he was upset, I still think that my acceptance of what I perceived as the first invitation was fine...even though he was upset because he had actually done the "asking" first. Sometimes it can be confusing as a follow, and sometimes, it gets to the point where you almost have to be rude to get the point across that you don't want to dance with a possessive lead.
Then, there have been times when my partner has asked me to dance a particular dance, and as we are waiting for the music to cue up on the side of the floor, another lead comes over and asks me. And then before I can respond my partner tells me to go ahead and dance with the other guy since we dance a lot...sigh. Still, as a follow, I can't really complain about getting asked to dance. I just really enjoy dancing with DP.
Then, there have been times when my partner has asked me to dance a particular dance, and as we are waiting for the music to cue up on the side of the floor, another lead comes over and asks me. And then before I can respond my partner tells me to go ahead and dance with the other guy since we dance a lot...sigh. Still, as a follow, I can't really complain about getting asked to dance. I just really enjoy dancing with DP.
Yes. I agree, Andreth. It can be confusing, when you're on the receiving end of dance invitations. Timing is everything. Sounds like you have a very gracious DP, btw. :-D
Honestly, reading through this thread has been very painful to me. I think that all the etiquette around asking for and accepting or rejecting dances is really ambiguous, a lot of the time, so it's a universal dance dilemma (I guess that's the right word.)
OTOH, I feel that making a list of people I'll never dance with again is a slippery slope. If my list has one or two people on it, well, okay. But if my list has five, six, ten or more people, maybe it's time to stop looking at them and start looking at myself. Maybe it's not the rest of the world. Maybe it's me.
Put bluntly, the only people I won't dance with are the people who stink badly (Yes. I dance with the mildly stinky. :lol: ) and the people who physically hurt me. Stinky and dangerous are about them. When I start making a blacklist of every potential dance partner who has slighted me in one way or another, that's about me.
My $0.02.
Honestly, reading through this thread has been very painful to me. I think that all the etiquette around asking for and accepting or rejecting dances is really ambiguous, a lot of the time, so it's a universal dance dilemma (I guess that's the right word.)
OTOH, I feel that making a list of people I'll never dance with again is a slippery slope. If my list has one or two people on it, well, okay. But if my list has five, six, ten or more people, maybe it's time to stop looking at them and start looking at myself. Maybe it's not the rest of the world. Maybe it's me.
Put bluntly, the only people I won't dance with are the people who stink badly (Yes. I dance with the mildly stinky. :lol: ) and the people who physically hurt me. Stinky and dangerous are about them. When I start making a blacklist of every potential dance partner who has slighted me in one way or another, that's about me.
My $0.02.
wooh
Well-Known Member
Andreth pointed out part of why I hate reservations. You turn someone down because there's a reservation, but the reserved person gets grabbed by someone, then you're stuck sitting, and you look like a liar because you've said, "Sorry, I promised to someone else, later though?" Then you're sitting, so if the asker pays attention, you've "lied." And probably just been added to their list.
I prefer a, "Try to get me later for a [insert dance here]?"
Dancing is more fun if you just get over yourself. (Said as someone that's learned that from experience not being over myself.)
I prefer a, "Try to get me later for a [insert dance here]?"
Dancing is more fun if you just get over yourself. (Said as someone that's learned that from experience not being over myself.)
Yepper. There's a reason why, in the old days, people had dance cards. It wasn't about reservations. It was about documented proof that you weren't lying. :wink: Just kidding, wooh!
But you are right. It's weird. It's weird-ER if you're thin skinned and looking to take offense. Just sayin.
But you are right. It's weird. It's weird-ER if you're thin skinned and looking to take offense. Just sayin.
This thread reminds me of a story I read about a professional choir in which all of the women carried a flower to every performance. The women who were menstruating carried a red flower. All the other women white. The choir director knew not to push the red-flowered women to the limits. (Stay with me. This is actually on topic. *grin*)
Wouldn't it be nice if there was a subtle way to signal other dancers that you were not ready/able to dance? That would definitely minimize dance-asking angst.
Wouldn't it be nice if there was a subtle way to signal other dancers that you were not ready/able to dance? That would definitely minimize dance-asking angst.
