The stylistic mixing of Smooth & Standard -- current trend

[Mr 4 styles]

Talk about your 3-dimensional. But what's that got to do with Modern? It's part of what makes good Smooth

perhaps Contemporary is a better term . the nature of this dance style is to move in all three planes at once where ballet tends to move more in two at once

smooth has evolved from strong biplanar movement ie translate and elevate or rotate and elevate to rotate elevate and contract core all at once susan is great at this

 

[samina]

smooth is smooth until you are in closed hold then its standard

I would disagree...I would say that it becomes Standard at the point where Smooth dancers break closed hold and Standard dancers stay in the closed hold. Being able to maintain closed hold for the short amount of time Smooth dancers are closed doesn't make it Standard. It is exponentially more difficult to hold (or rather, renew, with grace and while maintaining nuanced, flexible and living connection with a partner) that closed position for another minute...another two minutes...another three. That is where the skill-set of Standard dancers is utilized.

But in S and M s case close observation at thier use of emotion internal vs external movement, heavy vs light weight changes etc ( again redpath) fills in the gaps for me they are not as bichromatic to me as they appear to be to you

Sounds good. It's just not what I saw. And there wasn't anyone in the house who had a better seat or was watching more intently. Though I will grant that my knowledge of Smooth is quite rudimentary.

 

[Mr 4 styles]

And I was dismayed last night at BADC to see judges rewarding distinctly Standard style dancing in the Smooth event, when there were two couples who were distinctly truer to the style.

just reviewed the results there were hardly any couples above silver in smooth so sample error plays a role here. and in silver, more routines have standard in them as good foundation in technique is the goal .

 

[Mr 4 styles]

...I would say that it becomes Standard at the point where Smooth dancers break closed hold and Standard dancers stay in the closed hold

so for you its a percentage thing?? if its 60/40 open its too much standard for you??

most couples are around 70/30 or better and judges i have talked to seem to like that

 

[Mr 4 styles]

It's the beauty, feeling, energy & inspiration from the dancing that is my bottom line, as a viewer.

totally agree!!! but as a dancer i appreciate how these qualities can be augmented by solid trechnique great execution great floorcraft and great movement

ohh and a pretty gown for the lady!!

 

[samina]

so for you its a percentage thing?? if its 60/40 open its too much standard for you??

most couples are around 70/30 or better and judges i have talked to seem to like that

No, as I mentioned earlier my gripe isn't about the closed hold at all.

ETA: I suspect you may have missed my point, or that I didn't make it well. Said another way: Smooth dancers dancing briefly in closed hold for a wall or two doesn't necessarily make it "Standard" or "Standardish". It's Smooth in closed hold.

Herein ends my commentary on what is and isn't Smooth, as I am no expert. I'll leave that discussion to others with that experience. Standard is more my metier...

 

[opendoor]

Would like to hear others' ...

It depends on what you mean? Socials, performances, or competitions?

 

[Groovology]

just reviewed the results there were hardly any couples above silver in smooth so sample error plays a role here. and in silver, more routines have standard in them as good foundation in technique is the goal .

That much I can understand, but I'm talking about couples doing actually nothing but standard amalgamations from the technique book around the floor. Were the other couples removed from the floor, I'd have no idea if I wasn't watching a standard event instead. While they weren't technically breaking any rules (as far as I'm concerned; to be totally honest, I'm not all that familiar with what specific syllabus restrictions were in place at BADC, since I know a lot of different schools of American style exist), they also weren't really exploring all of the different tools dancing smooth rather than standard allows. There are considerably more and different ways of expressing the music with the body in smooth, and I think couples that take risks and try to actually differentiate themselves in that way should be marked higher than technically sound but more conservative dancers, as long as they don't have glaring issues with their fundamentals.

I'm not a judge, though, so I can't say whether that call is right or wrong. I just know that I'd prefer to see more adventurous couples do better as long as they also show that they have fundamentals. But maybe that's just because I'm too lazy to drill technique and mostly just prefer to put flashy and musical stuff in my routines...

 

[Mr 4 styles]

I just know that I'd prefer to see more adventurous couples do better as long as they also show that they have fundamentals. But maybe that's just because I'm too lazy to drill technique and mostly just prefer to put flashy and musical stuff in my routines...

i totally could have written this until my pro made me get better technically

 

[Mr 4 styles]

I suspect you may have missed my point, or that I didn't make it well.

ahh the internet, a conversation we could have had with clarity over the phone or in person at a comp,understood each other and derived valid input from one another is corrupted by heartless souless electrons and distance

some days i hate this thing

but then i play angry birds....

 

[samina]

It depends on what you mean? Socials, performances, or competitions?

In the context of my OP. Not for social dancing.

 

[j_alexandra]

At the American Congress last fall, S&M spoke extensively about their training in Laban movement analysis, and demonstrated what you're ascribing to Toni:

...thier use of emotion internal vs external movement, heavy vs light weight changes etc <snip> fills in the gaps for me they are not as bichromatic to me as they appear to be to you

Dynamics in dance is a study in itself. It exists in Standard, Latin, all 4 styles ;-) and without light and shade, internal vs external movement, heavy and light, what have you got? Nuttin', honey. In Smooth, I look for it as a starting point, not the endgame.

 

[Mr 4 styles]

In Smooth, I look for it as a starting point, not the endgame.

agree and for clarity i did not imply that it was the endgame . In fact, partner dancing has no endgame imo as improvement is infinite.

 

[samina]

Dynamics in dance is a study in itself. It exists in Standard, Latin, all 4 styles ;-) and without light and shade, internal vs external movement, heavy and light, what have you got? Nuttin', honey. In Smooth, I look for it as a starting point, not the endgame.

This discussion is reminding me that there is a conceptual aspect to dance that generally precedes one's embodiment of a quality. These start as aesthetic concepts and movement concepts, but then the dancer needs to make them real...to embody them. Am, pro-am, and accomplished pros alike strive to embody "more", and may be able to speak eloquently on the subject, and conceptually understand them. But embodying them...now that's the ticket.

Even acclaimed dancers have limits where their embodiment does not yet match their concept of what they would embody. Until they transcend that limit...

I think this must apply to a well-trained Standard dancer making a shift into Smooth. There are things that must be embodied which may not be easily embodied for a time...

 

[danceronice]

most of the men I know who wear less than tails in pro/am standard are men who have to dance many heats and would prefer not to expire in a heavy tailsuit...I have some sympathy for that...dancing three rounds as a 20-year old with someone who is at your skill level is one thing...dancing potentially 10 sets with no break at 45 with students of varying skill level is another challenge...while I am all for tailsuits (I am on record in that regard) I am also all for pros not collapsing on the floor...

I was going to say, NP wears his tailsuit to dance Standard, but he only has two of us, usually, in Bronze and Silver. (And he gripes, somewhat joking, somewhat serious, about how it's not all that comfortable.) I can see where if he had multiple students dancing all day, he'd prefer something more comfortable.

I can also see where if someone just doesn't find them flattering, they'd want to wear another style of jacket that suits them better. Plus it's not like womens' dresses are static styles--there's the cupcake gown fad, there's hem heights, styles of floats...I'm really not liking the trend I'm seeing with some Standard designs where there are cutouts or more skin showing. Not that I like it in Smooth, either, but I can grudgingly see the justification, but it would be nice if we kept ONE style where the options weren't "more skin showing than anyone but a very lithe twenty-year-old should reveal" and "dowdy." Women get some variation, give the men a break.