Another interview with Chicho Frumboli
- Thread starter jantango
- Start date
Subliminal
Well-Known Member
Thanks for posting this. Good interview.
jantango
Well-Known Member
And here's an old interview with Chicho that I came across from 2005.
How did you come to tango?
While I was studying theater in 1994, a classmate invited me to learn with her. I played drums and preferred rock, so I refused, but she insisted and I finally accepted. I will never stop dancing.
Why haven't you performed in a tango show?
It's not something I care to do. I feel closer to the dance floor.
However, your dancing is quite spectacular...
Perhaps, but the aesthetics are different. I feel I've changed tango's aesthetics. When I started dancing I saw students copying their teachers' styles. I felt more free while dancing. Most of my knowledge comes from the milonga, since I used to practice from Monday to Sunday.
What is the new tango?
That's a good question.
Don't you know?
First, there is a marketing reason as it happens with "the new tango generation" idea. On the other hand, I think it is justifiable to consider music rather than dance. Many people link me with electronic tango, perhaps for the kind of dance I do. But I feel more identification with Troilo, Pugliese and D'Arienzo than with e-tango.
Why do you choose such different music in your shows?
We choose music for shows ten minutes before dancing, according to our mood and the place's mood. So we improvise, we don't follow any previous choreography. I took that from Gustavo Naveira. Improvisation gives things that cannot be had when you prepare a choreography. Those changes you see in the music are because I think tango should be danced in many different ways and not in just one, as it is danced today. Tango is a very rich form. I'm a musician, so I can't understand dancers that move outside of the beat. I can't understand people who dance without any kind of internal life either.
What do you mean moving without feelings?
The essence is lost. Young people can identify with me but it's clear that I dance 100% tango. Some people might not realize that, taking into account my clothes or physical appearance.
How can dance possibilities be increased?
I learned all I know about dance structure with Gustavo Naveira. He was the one who found a way to open up tango. the possibilties for creation and evolution of dance are directly related to an absolute comprehension of what happens while we are dancing. In old times, what happened was that the woman had to follow the man as best as she could or just received verbal instructions from him. the relationship between men and women is now one of more communication.
We can also see a lot of playful spirit among dancers.
Yes, but playing can take you to any place. Many of the younger dancers play and search but they often lose the essence of tango.
And what is the essence?
A strong connection between man and woman. In the present day people learn two or three steps and go to dance. I may sound like a fanatic milonguero, but I really think that ritual of dance means things like thinking how to hold a woman, feeling what is her level, how much does she weigh, how she feels, etc. there are many young dancers that do not feel respect for old dancers. We have tango today thanks to them.
How can you teach improvisation?
We have different elements in tango dance. Taking four of them and combining them into a certain order, you get a sequence. But to be able to play in a free way I must know those elements perfectly.
How social is the tango you teach?
It is as social as the milonga allows. When I go to a milonga where people dance differently, I don't do ganchos, voleos and jumps. I adapt to the milonga. And in each milonga the space changes during the night. I teach tango; what you take from it is your way.
Dancing tango is like being the quintessential Argentine?
Absolutely. It connects you with Argentine history and culture. With tango I travel to times I didn't live. I guess it's a matter of blood. I think the importance of tango around the world is a social phenomena. In spite of the internet and mobile phones, there is a great loneliness and lack of physical contact. Thus couple dances and especially tango are attractive.
How do you feel entering a milonga?
The milonga has changed a lot. Some years ago, you had to have a certain image, with shirt, suit, shoes. In the present day, everyone dresses as they wish. There is a huge generational gap, both in dance and in music, for those three decades when tango was put aside. That's why in the milonga you see people 35 and under and others 65 and older. I think we should try to codify tango in a contemporary way. For example, I never use the cabeceo to invite someone to dance, because I just dance with friends, and I also prefer to go to the table.
And are you rejected?
Yes, I've been rejected many times.
You once said that learning tango is harder for Americans than for Europeans. Why do you think that is the case?
Europe has a more important history and art world. The United States is a younger country. However, if they are able to fidn the deep social and cultural meaning of tango, they will find tango, too.
Where is tango as a dance going?
I don't know. It is going somewhere. I like what's going on, this search. All this will lead us to an unknown place. i would prefer if it included the essence, not produce a hybrid. I would like to see it evolve keeping a link to the heart, related with identity and history.
How did you come to tango?
While I was studying theater in 1994, a classmate invited me to learn with her. I played drums and preferred rock, so I refused, but she insisted and I finally accepted. I will never stop dancing.
Why haven't you performed in a tango show?
It's not something I care to do. I feel closer to the dance floor.
However, your dancing is quite spectacular...
Perhaps, but the aesthetics are different. I feel I've changed tango's aesthetics. When I started dancing I saw students copying their teachers' styles. I felt more free while dancing. Most of my knowledge comes from the milonga, since I used to practice from Monday to Sunday.
What is the new tango?
That's a good question.
Don't you know?
First, there is a marketing reason as it happens with "the new tango generation" idea. On the other hand, I think it is justifiable to consider music rather than dance. Many people link me with electronic tango, perhaps for the kind of dance I do. But I feel more identification with Troilo, Pugliese and D'Arienzo than with e-tango.
Why do you choose such different music in your shows?
We choose music for shows ten minutes before dancing, according to our mood and the place's mood. So we improvise, we don't follow any previous choreography. I took that from Gustavo Naveira. Improvisation gives things that cannot be had when you prepare a choreography. Those changes you see in the music are because I think tango should be danced in many different ways and not in just one, as it is danced today. Tango is a very rich form. I'm a musician, so I can't understand dancers that move outside of the beat. I can't understand people who dance without any kind of internal life either.
What do you mean moving without feelings?
The essence is lost. Young people can identify with me but it's clear that I dance 100% tango. Some people might not realize that, taking into account my clothes or physical appearance.
How can dance possibilities be increased?
I learned all I know about dance structure with Gustavo Naveira. He was the one who found a way to open up tango. the possibilties for creation and evolution of dance are directly related to an absolute comprehension of what happens while we are dancing. In old times, what happened was that the woman had to follow the man as best as she could or just received verbal instructions from him. the relationship between men and women is now one of more communication.
We can also see a lot of playful spirit among dancers.
Yes, but playing can take you to any place. Many of the younger dancers play and search but they often lose the essence of tango.
And what is the essence?
A strong connection between man and woman. In the present day people learn two or three steps and go to dance. I may sound like a fanatic milonguero, but I really think that ritual of dance means things like thinking how to hold a woman, feeling what is her level, how much does she weigh, how she feels, etc. there are many young dancers that do not feel respect for old dancers. We have tango today thanks to them.
How can you teach improvisation?
We have different elements in tango dance. Taking four of them and combining them into a certain order, you get a sequence. But to be able to play in a free way I must know those elements perfectly.
How social is the tango you teach?
It is as social as the milonga allows. When I go to a milonga where people dance differently, I don't do ganchos, voleos and jumps. I adapt to the milonga. And in each milonga the space changes during the night. I teach tango; what you take from it is your way.
Dancing tango is like being the quintessential Argentine?
Absolutely. It connects you with Argentine history and culture. With tango I travel to times I didn't live. I guess it's a matter of blood. I think the importance of tango around the world is a social phenomena. In spite of the internet and mobile phones, there is a great loneliness and lack of physical contact. Thus couple dances and especially tango are attractive.
How do you feel entering a milonga?
The milonga has changed a lot. Some years ago, you had to have a certain image, with shirt, suit, shoes. In the present day, everyone dresses as they wish. There is a huge generational gap, both in dance and in music, for those three decades when tango was put aside. That's why in the milonga you see people 35 and under and others 65 and older. I think we should try to codify tango in a contemporary way. For example, I never use the cabeceo to invite someone to dance, because I just dance with friends, and I also prefer to go to the table.
And are you rejected?
Yes, I've been rejected many times.
You once said that learning tango is harder for Americans than for Europeans. Why do you think that is the case?
Europe has a more important history and art world. The United States is a younger country. However, if they are able to fidn the deep social and cultural meaning of tango, they will find tango, too.
Where is tango as a dance going?
I don't know. It is going somewhere. I like what's going on, this search. All this will lead us to an unknown place. i would prefer if it included the essence, not produce a hybrid. I would like to see it evolve keeping a link to the heart, related with identity and history.
opendoor
Forum Master
Some ideas while reading:
-His ambiguity between old an new. He always stresses how much he had received from tradition and rootedness, that he firmly rejects the label nuevo for himself, but his dancing on the other side is rather unique and he boasts to have changed milonga etiquettes, breaking limits and so on.
-His attitude towards women. Several times he puts himself directly in a line of Ricky, Teté, and Gus, only mentioning Victoria, Claudia, and Eugenia as a sideline. But what actually was the contribution of these three women? In 2002 I had the chance that Claudia was my teacher for six months, and I also had several privates with Eugenia later on. And of course I did ask these questions frequently!
-His concept of spontaneity. Chicho claimes that he does not rehearse in order to be free. But what I saw (I only had a workshops on musicality with Chicho) rather was a mathematical approach to tango, a computer brain that analyzed structures in real time to provide logical solutions. Quite the opposite of what I would call intuition. And he confirms it in this interview: Improvisation comes from visualization rather than from spontaneity!
-His inconsistency. He wants to take lessons as soon as someone will invent something new in tango, but on the other hand he refuses new developments like contact impro, contemporary dance, or reciprocity in leading.
-What bothers me: He calls for reverence and respecting dance codes, he questions head bands and crazy trousers, but I already saw him dancing in flip-flops at a formal milonga which actually was pretty much disdainfully.
-His central statement (for me anyway): "I feel that tango is something weighty".
-His ambiguity between old an new. He always stresses how much he had received from tradition and rootedness, that he firmly rejects the label nuevo for himself, but his dancing on the other side is rather unique and he boasts to have changed milonga etiquettes, breaking limits and so on.
-His attitude towards women. Several times he puts himself directly in a line of Ricky, Teté, and Gus, only mentioning Victoria, Claudia, and Eugenia as a sideline. But what actually was the contribution of these three women? In 2002 I had the chance that Claudia was my teacher for six months, and I also had several privates with Eugenia later on. And of course I did ask these questions frequently!
-His concept of spontaneity. Chicho claimes that he does not rehearse in order to be free. But what I saw (I only had a workshops on musicality with Chicho) rather was a mathematical approach to tango, a computer brain that analyzed structures in real time to provide logical solutions. Quite the opposite of what I would call intuition. And he confirms it in this interview: Improvisation comes from visualization rather than from spontaneity!
-His inconsistency. He wants to take lessons as soon as someone will invent something new in tango, but on the other hand he refuses new developments like contact impro, contemporary dance, or reciprocity in leading.
-What bothers me: He calls for reverence and respecting dance codes, he questions head bands and crazy trousers, but I already saw him dancing in flip-flops at a formal milonga which actually was pretty much disdainfully.
-His central statement (for me anyway): "I feel that tango is something weighty".
Subliminal
Well-Known Member
Thanks for this post Opendoor, it kind of jives with some things I've seen from taking group lessons from him.
For all the flack that he gets from traditionalists, I agree, it doesn't seem that Chicho is really all that out there. Most of what he teaches are just extensions of traditional tango moves taken to extremes with occasional concepts borrowed from Swing dancing. A lot of it requires more body control and toning than other styles of dance, but it's not so far removed that it requires completely different technique.
Great part of the most important and known "nuevo" dancers, including the inventors themselves, refuse this label, at least as a style. So this is nothing strange. After all, what they do is just intepreting with fantasy and freedom some old concepts.
Milonga etiquettes should not be confused with tradition and rootedness of the dance. He just thinks some codes are not relevant.
The mathematical approach is a way to teach you how to be in the music when your intuition alone is not enough.
First you must learn to listen to the music, then you can use intuition to dance it.
Improvisation doesn't mean doing things a random.
contact impro and contemporary dance are not new developments of tango: they are just other dances.
That statement can look quite weird, but he explained it very well later.
opendoor
Forum Master
mmh, tango was a fusion art right from the beginning. And tango was a different animal if not several dances and styles used to be crossed in between 1880 up to 1940. And thus also nuevo/neo adopted some moves from swing, ballet, or hiphop. So it seems difficult to draw a line between tango, contact and contemporary. Of course they are different animals but concerning contact impro and neo tango we have to face an overlapping dance scene.