Good Lead for the Tango walk

[Albanaich]

I would have to disagree about about ECS, WCS, and Argentine Tango. AT is not even slightly like ECS, and even less like WCS.

The lead is absolutely different, which was the purpose of the article I posted.

http://www.jivetango.co.uk/Articles/Cerochoes.html

In order to lead tango in EC or Ceroc, you have to be a GOOD LEAD, because your partner will have no idea what is going on.

What WCS and Lindy share with AT is that unlike ECS and Ceroc they are very musically driven. . . .

To quote from the article

>>A beginner in Ceroc basically gets their hand pushed towards them and then pulled forwards and there's a whole load of "fill in the blanks" for them to do. Eek. But in a tango frame when I'm going to lead a step I supply the full information of how to move all her body, where to move it and when.<<

 

[ant]

West Coast Swing and East Coast Swing is so similar to Tango it’s scary.

Presumably this echoes the advise from Peaches recently for someone doing there first AT lesson in that thread.

Feel the music, and the emotion of it...even if you can't understand the words. Forget BR tango, and think more WCS instead.

Originally Posted by hbboogie

WCS (California) is danced in a slot because the floors are more crowded on the West Coast. You stay in your slot (dancing in one direction east to west or north to south)

East Coast Swing (New York) is danced in a circular motion (not slotted) using more of the floor due to uncrowded conditions.

This very much echoes the controversy in Ceroc at the moment between the circular motion Cerocers (Modern Jivers) and WCS slotters when they are both danced at the same venues and space is limited. The styles then often clash.

Originally Posted by Albanaich

What WCS and Lindy share with AT is that unlike ECS and Ceroc they are very musically driven. . . .

Don't you think this is why Blues Rooms and Chill Out Zones are becoming more popular in Ceroc as the dancing there is moving more towards an interepreation of the music and not just an amalgamation of moves. It is quite impressive these days to see the different styles going on in those areas AT, WCS, Lindy and various Latin styles.

 

[hbboogie1]

I would have to disagree about about ECS, WCS, and Argentine Tango. AT is not even slightly like ECS, and even less like WCS.

The lead is absolutely different, which was the purpose of the article I posted.

http://www.jivetango.co.uk/Articles/Cerochoes.html

In order to lead tango in EC or Ceroc, you have to be a GOOD LEAD, because your partner will have no idea what is going on.

What WCS and Lindy share with AT is that unlike ECS and Ceroc they are very musically driven. . . .

To quote from the article

>>A beginner in Ceroc basically gets their hand pushed towards them and then pulled forwards and there's a whole load of "fill in the blanks" for them to do. Eek. But in a tango frame when I'm going to lead a step I supply the full information of how to move all her body, where to move it and when.<<

I was only referring to floor space

 

[Steve Pastor]

WCS (California) is danced in a slot because the floors are more crowded on the West Coast. You stay in your slot (dancing in one direction east to west or north to south)

In the interests of what I hope is historical accuracy...
This oft repeated story is contradicted by serveral things.
Balboa arose a short ways down the coast from LA, in crowded conditions.
Also, the influential Dean Collins danced a "slotted swing", but the slot was not fixed and ended up in whichever direction there was an empty space on the floor. This comes from two sources: watching his dancing in several films, and "Lindy by Lanza".

None of the other commonly repeated reasons for WCS being slotted stand up to scrutiny, either.
The "fixed slot" seems to be there because that's what Laure' Haile taught the Arthur Murray teachers to teach as Western Swing, as written in her Dance Notebook. She used the terms NEVER and ALWAYS when referring to the slot, which seems to me very unlikely to be the kind of thing regular dancers would think or say in that era.

Lanza has a transcription of a taping of Collins in which he refers to "The New Yorker" rather than East Coast Swing.

Anyone who has what they think to be substantial information that contradicts any of this, please contribute!

But wait, this is the AT section!

 

[Steve Pastor]

I wish WCS where I dance was really driven by the music!
Course, I could say the same about AT much of the time. (Let's just walk. That's what AT is, right? A walking dance. Never mind those fast notes the violin is playing. The volcalist? Ignore him too. etc etc)
At their best, though, both AT and WCS strive for musicality.
There is a lot of "away resistance", though, in WCS, which is very much unlike AT.
And where I am, if you try to do something that hasn't been taught in the area, good luck. You have to know your "audience", or you will end up with (another) upset partner. Thank goodness there are exceptions! Women who will Boldy Go...

 

[hbboogie1]

In the interests of what I hope is historical accuracy...
This oft repeated story is contradicted by serveral things.
Balboa arose a short ways down the coast from LA, in crowded conditions.
Also, the influential Dean Collins danced a "slotted swing", but the slot was not fixed and ended up in whichever direction there was an empty space on the floor. This comes from two sources: watching his dancing in several films, and "Lindy by Lanza".

None of the other commonly repeated reasons for WCS being slotted stand up to scrutiny, either.
The "fixed slot" seems to be there because that's what Laure' Haile taught the Arthur Murray teachers to teach as Western Swing, as written in her Dance Notebook. She used the terms NEVER and ALWAYS when referring to the slot, which seems to me very unlikely to be the kind of thing regular dancers would think or say in that era.

Lanza has a transcription of a taping of Collins in which he refers to "The New Yorker" rather than East Coast Swing.

Anyone who has what they think to be substantial information that contradicts any of this, please contribute!

But wait, this is the AT section!

West Coast Swing originated from an earlier dance known as the Savoy Style Lindy, which was done at the Savoy Ballroom in New York in the early 1930's. Although WCS was not invented by, it was indirectly spawned by a man whose name was Dean Collins, who also danced at the Savoy while living in New York.

THE SLOT:
The slot is not original to West Coast Swing but is strongly linked to it today. West Coast Swing, which is a strictly slotted (a 3'X6' or 3X8' rectangular dance space) which has the leader dance in place while the follower travels back and forth. This style of swing has some to say that this slot was born out of "WIDE ANGLE LENSES" not having been invented yet! (not totally true). The Directors needed to put the dancers in straight lines to get them all in the camera. However, many swing movies only had "one couple dancing" at a time and many previous movies of Whitey's Lindy Hoppers will show a slot being danced ("for the camera", I believe.) This "Slot" idea was to get the profile of the dancers rather than the backs of the dancers to the camera. If the dancers rotated while dancing it would not have shown the movie-goer much dancing. This "slotted-style" eventually caught on as the norm and STAYED STRICTLY SLOTTED! when West Coast is danced socially. The film "Don't Knock the Rock" strongly features the WCS Slot that California dancers prided themselves on by dancing on a couch, coffee table etc. Don't really know if the choreographers wanted to feature the Slotted Style or it was the dancers making a statement, but it is there as plain as day.

Yet, another story is that because Los Angeles had many small night clubs, and there was a huge migration happening in California at the time. The L.A. dancers had to squeeze together and thus maintained a "Slotted type movement" to avoid hitting each other. The two above ideas merging together would be the main reason people today dance slotted swing socially (I support this story very strongly.)

 

[Steve Pastor]

Looks like Sonny Watson's StreetSwing page.
"Savoy Swing" ala Dean Collins required a rock step with the lady moving through the slot on the triples. Same sources as before - Dean Collins on film and "Lindy by Lanza".