How should a man say no?

[Peaches]

FWIW, for me when a woman says no to my dance invitation, saying it with a smile does not help in any way, what so ever (and if anything, I find it annoying).

I don't think that it necessarily helps with anything, I just mean that there is no reason to be snide or nasty when turning someone down; a smile (or just a pleasant facial expression) conveys that.

 

[Joe]

I understand that critiquing someone's dancing at a milonga (whilst dancing with them) is gauche, but what is the etiquette for a practica?

 

[Dave Bailey]

I understand that critiquing someone's dancing at a milonga (whilst dancing with them) is gauche, but what is the etiquette for a practica?

Inviting and providing critique is pretty much the entire point of a practica.

Of course, there's good and bad ways of doing this.

For example, one way I've worked out is to go with a small group of peer dancers to a (specific paractica) venue, work on some areas, give critique as required. Additionally, we take videos, upload them to our Facebook group, and we then review those videos and provide comments there also. I'd say that those video comments are the most useful part of that process.

Another thing I use is a weekly session with a practice partner, to work on something new. When it goes wrong, we then both try to analyze what went wrong and why - the trick is to do this in a non-judgemental way. I find the easiest thing to do is assume I made a mistake, then try to work it out from there.

 

[Joe]

Then it seems perfectly acceptable for the OP to "advise" the women at the practica (with whom dancing is a chore) regarding the issues which cause, well, issues.

 

[Dave Bailey]

Then it seems perfectly acceptable for the OP to "advise" the women at the practica (with whom dancing is a chore) regarding the issues which cause, well, issues.

Yes. In fact, that's better than not dancing with them, because it'll also give the OP experience in dealing with "difficult" followers.

Although, FWIW, I find that the more experienced I get, the less "difficult" followers I encounter...

 

[Madahlia]

Let them know by a common friend that you don't want to dance with them.

I wouldn't like that at all! It is indirect, relieving the rejecter of the need to be honest face-to-face and puts the "friend" in a very awkward position. At least with a one-on-one rejection only the two people inolved need know about it, whereas if the responsibility was shunted onto someone else there'd be the feeling that the whole local tango community was whispering about who wouldn't dance with who.

 

[tangobro]

Thanks all - I usually follow Blueskies approach, but I sometimes get caught during the cortina, or at the beginning of a tanda just as I'm moving within range or jockeying for position to ask someones else. Sadly the cabaceo is not in widespread use here.

As for providing feedback at practicas - since I stopped smoking & drinking my only vice is unsolicited advice, and I'm trying to cut back on that. Most of these women have been dancing longer than I, and do not seem open to input, so if I'm not asked I don't suggest ways that they should change. That's part of my problem, I feel some of them put up with & encouraged me when I was a brand new beginner and I feel bad about saying no.

From the range of reponses I guess there is no common etiquette. It's my choice to be honest, with a polite no & feel the guilt - or say yes & deal with the pain of a sore back & knees.

Salt in the wound - overheard this weekend at the snack bar of a milonga "...so I asked this guy that I don't detest too much and he turned me down - so I didn't get a chance to dance AND I felt like s**t for getting rejected."

I'm SURE the earth is going to open under that guy for breaking what piimapoika describes as the basic law of the universe.

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Why do you feel guilty saying no?

The tango etiquette for avoiding that sort of problems would be cabeceo.

If a woman (and a man, for that matter) decides to use more direct approach, she (and he) has to keep in mind that it bears a certain risk of what might be interpreted as a rejection. So if you choose to ask "Would you like to dance?" be ready
-to hear "no",
-take it as a perfectly legitimate answer, because it is
-deal with it not as a spoiled child, but as a grown up, mature individual.

If one has a hard time taking "no" for an answer, she (or he) simply should not ask, IMO.

 

[spectator]

just break eye contact.

oh look, another argument that mirada might actually spare people's feelings!

 

[borisvian13]

...Salt in the wound - overheard this weekend at the snack bar of a milonga "...so I asked this guy that I don't detest too much and he turned me down - so I didn't get a chance to dance AND I felt like s**t for getting rejected."

I'm SURE the earth is going to open under that guy for breaking what piimapoika describes as the basic law of the universe.

Who knows, perhaps that was me... I rejected an invitation this weekend and now I feel horribly exposed

 

[Dave Bailey]

As for providing feedback at practicas - since I stopped smoking & drinking my only vice is unsolicited advice, and I'm trying to cut back on that. Most of these women have been dancing longer than I, and do not seem open to input, so if I'm not asked I don't suggest ways that they should change.

Then why are they (and you) going to practicas?

A practica without feedback or structure is just a sloppy milonga...

 

[tangobro]

Why do you feel guilty saying no?

The tango etiquette for avoiding that sort of problems would be cabeceo.

I feel badly because
1- some of the women danced with and encouraged me when I was just starting.
2- some of the women I'm friendly with.
3- I hate to dissappoint a lady. I know -- it's corny. Don't kick me:bkick:

The cabeceo is not widely used here in NYC. Many people seem to be aware of it, it works sometimes but not all the time.

 

[tangobro]

Then why are they (and you) going to practicas?

A practica without feedback or structure is just a sloppy milonga...

I go because I WANT to get feedback, criticism, advice, practice and to improve my dance. I can't speak for the women, but several have mentioned that going to a practica during the daytime on the weekend fits their schedule better than a milonga at night.

 

[Dave Bailey]

I go because I WANT to get feedback, criticism, advice, practice and to improve my dance.

Which is exactly what a practica is for, I'd have thought.

I can't speak for the women, but several have mentioned that going to a practica during the daytime on the weekend fits their schedule better than a milonga at night.

Well I think they have the wrong attitude, but at least that explains why there's some prickly-ness in their attitudes.