Pressure in open embrace with pivots

[Peaches]

Since you are still deciding...
I know some folks like the visual lead thing. If you want to talk about people taking away the wrong message, though, I would put this one at the top of the list.
It does not encourage people to learn to "Feel" a lead, or the response to it, their partner's momentum, axis, etc.

True.

But I'm thinking back to my very first lesson, and my teacher distilling everything down to "stay in front of me." I can see it being useful in the context of that sort of message.

I think it's more useful as an exercise for slightly more advanced dancers, though.

 

[Peaches]

I use to use that exercise to teach focused attention. Another exercise I use to use was leading/following only with leader's L and followers R hands, or leave those and dance only with the arm connection. I think it increases specific awareness.

Yes, they often get the wrong idea. I always try to be clear about what they should be learning, and what they should not be learning.

Another useful exercise I was taught when I was just starting, was to stand slightly behind and to the side of my teacher, close my eyes and place my right hand on my teacher's lower back. And I do mean lower. He had me follow his movements around the room (just L,R,F,B...and up and down) by feeling how he moved what he thought of as his core. Then he switched--he closed his eyes, put his hand on my lower back, and had me lead him. That was very interesting and useful as a starting point to learn how to really move and project my body.

 

[Gssh]

Ok, here i go again - i have been fiddling with these ideas a lot after the whole ce/oe discussions:

My current position: - yes, there is place for pressure, but the important concept for leaders to get is that it is not the leader who provides the pressure, but the FOLLOWER. The leader leads the same no matter what, and in fast/deep pivots the follower can use him to get additional power. This is the same principle as in ce - i do not push the follower around, but i project and the follower uses me to project her self - my job is to lead, and to create a stable, reassuring surface.

That is where imho the visual lead goes wrong - it teaches followers to move in a way that matches the lead instead of being actually lead, and then some of them start to neglect the use of the embrace, which then in turn leads leader to overuse the embrace. This is very noticable when doing either a ce or oe embrace moulinette - some followers feel "bumpy" because they move around me based on their bodies, not based on where they are in reltionship to our bodies/the embrace.

Gssh

 

[opendoor]

Re: best concept

..As I'm not going to change the follower's philosophy on the mollinette in the middle of a tanda, I ...

it is always different and always more different than you thought :cheers:

 

[bafonso]

Another useful exercise I was taught when I was just starting, was to stand slightly behind and to the side of my teacher, close my eyes and place my right hand on my teacher's lower back. And I do mean lower. He had me follow his movements around the room (just L,R,F,B...and up and down) by feeling how he moved what he thought of as his core. Then he switched--he closed his eyes, put his hand on my lower back, and had me lead him. That was very interesting and useful as a starting point to learn how to really move and project my body.

Interesting idea.