Toronto Tango Congress

Daniel Nacucchio & Cristina Sosa
review the dance portions of their workshops exploring Villa Urquiza's style of tango salon. They had discussed the historical, geographical, musical & some cultural/social differences that distinguished Villa Urquiza's tango community from that of downtown Bs. As. or El Centro, and how those factors influenced the Villa Urquiza neighborhood's style of dance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpxUtFyWsfE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aryOmsz_KYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV-RL6Krb-4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dVst_6HUiw
 
tangobro said:
Daniel Nacucchio & Cristina Sosa
review the dance portions of their workshops exploring Villa Urquiza's style of tango salon. They had discussed the historical, geographical, musical & some cultural/social differences that distinguished Villa Urquiza's tango community from that of downtown Bs. As. or El Centro, and how those factors influenced the Villa Urquiza neighborhood's style of dance.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this tribute to their imagination. Reminder, they were trained by Carlos & Rosa, who state that there is no such thing as VU style. If the same couple is invited next year, ask them to discuss the historical, geographical, musical & some cultural/social specificities of the Vicente Lopez style.
 
tangobro said:
Daniel Nacucchio & Cristina Sosa
review the dance portions of their workshops exploring Villa Urquiza's style of tango salon. They had discussed the historical, geographical, musical & some cultural/social differences that distinguished Villa Urquiza's tango community from that of downtown Bs. As. or El Centro, and how those factors influenced the Villa Urquiza neighborhood's style of dance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpxUtFyWsfE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aryOmsz_KYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV-RL6Krb-4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dVst_6HUiw
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting this. I'm big fans of Daniel & Cristina, and of course their Villa Urquiza style of dancing. I wish I could have made it up to some of their classes.
 
newbie said:
Thanks for this tribute to their imagination. Reminder, they were trained by Carlos & Rosa, who state that there is no such thing as VU style. If the same couple is invited next year, ask them to discuss the historical, geographical, musical & some cultural/social specificities of the Vicente Lopez style.
Click to expand...
Is it really necessary to post this silly spam every time someone posts something about VU style?

blink.gif
 
newbie said:
Thanks for this tribute to their imagination. Reminder, they were trained by Carlos & Rosa, who state that there is no such thing as VU style. If the same couple is invited next year, ask them to discuss the historical, geographical, musical & some cultural/social specificities of the Vicente Lopez style.
Click to expand...

As I understand it, the saying "...not able to see the forest for the trees" refers to a person who is close enough to see each tree, and notice what is unique & special about each one, where a person with a different perspective sees a larger picture. Carlos & Rosa are among those who are identified as Villa Urquiza stylists who don't subscribe to the term. That does not mean that the style does not exist, it means that they do not agree with the label. Perhaps they are seeing the individual dancers & focusing on what is unique & special about each one.

A summary of the use of the "Villa Urquiza" label that fits much of what I've heard from Argentines can be found here
http://tangovoice.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/tango-estilo-villa-urquiza/

follow the hyperlinks in the article for more info.

Carlos & Rosa were among Daniel's teachers (he mentioned Maria Nieves & J? Balmaceda among others), but what he & Cristina were sharing in this particular workshop was what he said he learned from "los viejos" the older milongueros who danced in the Villa Urquiza clubs. I found it interesting that he talked more about styles & codes of behavior than techniques of dancing.
 
tangobro said:
.. A summary of the use of the "Villa Urquiza" label .. can be found here tangovoice.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/tango-estilo-villa-urquiza
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting this link, really interesting summary.

tangobro said:
Daniel Nacucchio & Cristina Sosa
review the dance portions of their workshops exploring Villa Urquiza's style of tango salon...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV-RL6Krb-4
Click to expand...

I find the boleo vid youtube.com/watch?v=TV-RL6Krb-4 interesting for the following reason: the lead of the boleos is totally different. I came across it last week end. Graciela (see my summary) labelled Pupi´s style as VU and showed how he led (circular) boleos: he forced them by a sharp forward impuls, the rebound was initiated by itself then, because the embrace limited a further torsion. That´s totally the opposite of how I lead them, which emphasizes the rebound (countermovement), not the forward action! So they are smooth and save your backbone.
And look, exactly the same way with Daniel in the shown vid. I think everyone is exempted from learning an outdated leading technique, but if you like it, be aware that a great number of girls will find your boleos dreadfully.
 
opendoor said:
Thanks for posting this link, really interesting summary.



I find the boleo vid youtube.com/watch?v=TV-RL6Krb-4 interesting for the following reason: the lead of the boleos is totally different. I came across it last week end. Graciela (see my summary) labelled Pupi´s style as VU and showed how he led (circular) boleos: he forced them by a sharp forward impuls, the rebound was initiated by itself then, because the embrace limited a further torsion. That´s totally the opposite of how I lead them, which emphasizes the rebound (countermovement), not the forward action! So they are smooth and save your backbone.
And look, exactly the same way with Daniel in the shown vid. I think everyone is exempted from learning an outdated leading technique, but if you like it, be aware that a great number of girls will find your boleos dreadfully.
Click to expand...


Gabriel Misse (who is also labeled as a Villa Urquiza style dancer, although as I recall he was rather dismissive of all labels - making more of the distinction between dancing for performance & dancing for pleasure) uses la marca in the right elbow. Daniel uses the left hand for la marca. Both use position & upper body rotation to accomplish the boleo - neither use arms or hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igytU9qCNsk

this brings up another point that Daniel's anecdotes illustrated, the need for individuality & personal discovery.

ps - warning: Cristina stressed that the high boleos led in this vid should not be done in a crowded milonga, and that the woman should contain it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV-RL6Krb-4
 
I haven't had time to get back to this post, but in addition to dance workshops there were music & DJ work shops. the music workshop was taught by the DJ Ilene Marder, La Rubia del Norte. She identified the eras & orchestras & played examples of their music. The following is excerpted from the handout she provided.

Guardia Vieja (old guard) turn of century mid to late 20's. Among old guard recordings still played in milongas today: Orquesta Tipica Victor, Adolfo Carabelli, Roberto Firpo, Juan Maglio "Pacho".

Early Golden Age. Julio De Caro, Francisco Canaro, Osvaldo Fresedo, Edgardo Donato, Francisco Lomuto.

Golden Age. Most of the music played today for social dancing. Music from the late '30's to the mid '50's. Later music by these orchestras was geared for concert performances or export & not suitable for social dancing. Carlos Di Sarli with vocalists Roberto Ruffino, Alberto Podesta, Jorge Duran. Juan D'Arienzo, classic instrumentals from mid "30"s with Rudolfo Biagi on piano, vocals primarily with Alberto Echague. Anibal Troilo she says older Bs. As. milongueros prefer him with Francisco Fiorentino, his other vocalists included Alberto Marino and Floreal Ruiz (who is popular in the USA - "La Noche Que Te Fuiste", Naranjo En Flor"). His tunes with singer Edmundo Rivera are not often played at milongas, and his music after the the late '40's is not generally played for dancing. Osvaldo Pugliese, with vocalists Roberto Chanel & Alberto Moran from the '40's, his instrumental music from the mid '50's often played late in the evening "Gallo Ciego", "Nochero Soy", "Emancipation". Miguel Calo both instrumentals vocal tracks with Raul Beron, valses with Alberto Podesta, tangos with Raul Iriarte & Jorge Ortiz. Pedro Laurenz. Ricardo Tanturi, his instrumentals are popular in Bs. As. in the USA his vocal tracks with Alberto Castillo and Enrique Campos are more popular. Rudolfo Biagi, vocalists Alberto Amor, Carlos Acuna, Teofilo Ibanez. Lucio Demare, vocal tracks with Raul Beron, Horacio Quintana, Juan Carlos Miranda. Enrique Rodriguez, singer Armando Moreno. Alfredo De Angelis, prime vocalists were Julio Martel, Floreal Ruiz, Carlos Dante. Ricardo Malerba, featured singer Orlando Medina.

Transitions & New Tango - Astor Piazzolla. Modern orchestras in Bs. As. that emulate golden age orchestras - Color Tango (Pugliese), Sans Souci (Calo), Los Reyes del Tango (D'Arienzo), Gente de Tango (Di Sarli). Classic tango dance music played by Sexteto Milonguero. Fusion or alternative groups Gotan Project, NarcoTango, Bajofundo Tango Club, Otros Aires, Tanghetto & others.

She listed the web resources
www.todotango.com
www.tejastango.com
www.totango.net
www.10tango.com
www.milonga.co.uk
www.totaltango.com
www.history-of-tango.com
www.tangoandchaos.org
www.elportaldeltango.com
www.planet-tango.com
www.tangostore.com

questions - Ilene Marder www.woodstocktango.com
 
tangobro said:
As I understand it, the saying "...not able to see the forest for the trees" refers to a person who is close enough to see each tree, and notice what is unique & special about each one, where a person with a different perspective sees a larger picture. Carlos & Rosa are among those who are identified as Villa Urquiza stylists who don't subscribe to the term. That does not mean that the style does not exist, it means that they do not agree with the label. Perhaps they are seeing the individual dancers & focusing on what is unique & special about each one.

A summary of the use of the "Villa Urquiza" label that fits much of what I've heard from Argentines can be found here
http://tangovoice.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/tango-estilo-villa-urquiza/

follow the hyperlinks in the article for more info.

Carlos & Rosa were among Daniel's teachers (he mentioned Maria Nieves & J? Balmaceda among others), but what he & Cristina were sharing in this particular workshop was what he said he learned from "los viejos" the older milongueros who danced in the Villa Urquiza clubs. I found it interesting that he talked more about styles & codes of behavior than techniques of dancing.
Click to expand...

Interestingly, Tango Voice doesn't cover my understanding of the Tango
danced in the Villa Urquiza area (Sunderland, Sin Rumbo) in the Golden Age.
Note that I've written in Villa Urquiza. As taught to me that was based on
the apilado in-line embrace and an opening out when there was space
for open Ochos, Giros, blocks and Ganchos. I've seen some confirmation
of that on the net and that at the time it was Tango de Salon which indeed
was how it was described by my teachers.

I've extracted this from a piece written in 1999 from here:
http://www.neymelo.com/tangostyles.htm
found by following jantango's link on the Tango Voice blog.

Naveira himself affirms: "a single person cannot be determining in the evolution of the dance.
That's been happening from the beginning of the tango, and without stop, always because of
a conjunction of factors. Now, what is arising is a system of improvisation of an even greater
variety of combinations. And these changes are also transferred to the marking techniques
to lead the woman".

However, for disc jockey Horacio Godoy the future is in Villa Urquiza.
Teachers Vilma Heredia and Gabriel Angià also agree that many young people are focusing
their attention to the floor of the old Sunderland Club of Villa Urquiza, where they still
can watch the habitués of half century ago. "Urquiza is what it's coming,"
prophesies Godoy. "There is a group of kids that realized that the maximum wealth is there.
I am not talking about figures, it's about the musicality and the quality of the movement.
It's about a wealth of knowledge so subtle and complex that for the ordinary eye is imperceptible. "

Godoy's more than 11 year old comment is still quoted, maybe misquoted.
Nor am I sure that a DJ's opinion is entirely relevant anyway other than
as a rather biased observer (more dancers equals more work?).
The biggest irony seems to be that in the Sunderland Club nowadays
apparently neither their old style nor the modern VU are much seen,
only close embrace milonguero and variations.

What is clear (to me at least) is that the Villa Urquiza of today is a style
evolved and promulgated by teachers for its visual appeal, its relative
accessibility and therefore its teachability. Note before anyone gets hot
under the collar, I'm not passing any judgement on relative merit only
pointing out what I and others think it is. As long as it coexists with other
styles on the dance floor it doesn't matter that much to me. I do wish
that dancers would be more aware of each other on the dancefloor and
adjust accordingly but that plea is just as applicable to other dance forms.

The one thing I don't like is the sticking out lady's elbow. You'd agree with me
once you've been sharply jabbed by one on a busy crowded dancefloor.

A last word and appropriating this in entirety from jantango's blog:

This is what Nito Garcia said in his interview published in the July 2009 issue No. 177,
page 35 of El Tangauta: “Does the Avellaneda style exist nowadays?

Nito: No, at times I taught a “milonga from Avellanenda,” but I called it that because
they were the steps I learned in Avellaneda. I don’t believe that either the Avellaneda style
or the Villa Urquiza style exists. I even doubt that the great creators of what they call today
Villa Urquiza style ever lived in that neighborhood. How come the Villa Urquiza style
appears now and did not appear before? When tango turned commercial,
strange things began to happen.”

Thank you to Janis
http://jantango.wordpress.com/2009/08/08/the-battle-of-styles/
 
It would seem many (most?) of the dancers with extensive experience and intimate first-hand field experience reject a lot of the current labels for tango 'styles'.

Nito Garcia: "I don’t believe that either the Avellaneda style or the Villa Urquiza style exists."

Gabriel Misse: Is dismissive of all labels.

Carlos & Rosa: are among those who are identified as Villa Urquiza stylists who don't subscribe to the term.

Maybe they are trying to tell us something?
 
joegrohens said:
It would seem many (most?) of the dancers with extensive experience and intimate first-hand field experience reject a lot of the current labels for tango 'styles'.

Nito Garcia: "I don’t believe that either the Avellaneda style or the Villa Urquiza style exists."

Gabriel Misse: Is dismissive of all labels.

Carlos & Rosa: are among those who are identified as Villa Urquiza stylists who don't subscribe to the term.

Maybe they are trying to tell us something?
Click to expand...
Maybe they are indicating that Villa Urquiza is invented and in the Golden Age
a more space utilising style seen at Club Sunderland when conditions allowed
was just what it was - Tango Salon.

But tell that to Tango Academia in BsAs and the teachers who market the name
for classes. It's they who have co-opted a Barrio name to give it credence.

Interestingly here is an example from 2006 found as the first video
by Googling for Carlos and Rosa:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w3B4TOLpjw
Described as:
 neymelo | 19 September 2006
Classic Villa Urquiza! Rare performance by the teachers who run
the classes & practica at Club Sunderland in Villa Urquiza.
They have trained many of the young stars of today, including
Fabian Peralta, Pablo Rodriguez y Noelia Hurtado,
and Santiago Croce y Amy Lincoln.

My Bold.
My understanding agrees with others that there isn't a classic VU -
but here says different! Carlos & Rosa have possibly been dancing this way
for years or maybe they have adopted this in their advancing years
in order to keep dancing.

So, joegrohens, what do you think they are trying to tell us?
 
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