Overly aggressive dancers

I had an interesting experience last time I went out dancing that I wanted to share. I got to watch a guy dance who had some of the most incredible dance skills I've seen to date, but there was something about his particular style that didn't appeal to me.

The way he danced was so aggresive...he would spin himself and his partner and blinding speed and he was also a huge guy (250+ pounds), so anyone near him had to watch close to avoid getting bulldozed out of the way.

I heard one his partners say "hey you're leading me too fast through something I don't know" but he didn't slow down in the least. Instead of two people moving as one, it was like watching a guy lead a lady like she was a marionette. The lady was getting whirled, spun and even dipped (to the point that she was horizontal with the floor and mostly laying on it!) at such speed that I was glad to see she was still in one piece after the dance!

I'm curious to ask the other Salsa folks if this type of dancing is a common occurance in the clubs you frequent, as I've never seen anyone dance like that before. If Salsa is truly part of the ritual of love and in essence a form of forplay, it made me wonder by watching this guy dance how tended to treat women. To put it mildly, in my eyes it looked like he saw them only as a piece of flesh to satisfy his tremendous ego, nothing more.

Maybe I'm being too critical as this just not my thing, but I love to watch very smooth and sensual dancers. The crazy stuff just doesn't do much for me, save to remind me I never want to dance like that. :wink:

Best,

SG

Scorpionguy, I think every dancer has a similar tale...I've been thinking lots about the same topic since a few weeks back when I danced with a fabulous dancer whose lead was so aggressive I acutally had a cut and a bruise on my hands after dancing salsa with him.

He's an absolute gentleman and it's rare to get a dance with him, but I've never had someone lead me so hard that his fingernails penetrated my skin!!! And, frankly, the dance looked so good (him, not me, I just followed), that it was worth a couple of drops of blood (ha ha!).

I usually find that guys who lead agressively with no concern for their partner are only dancing by themselves anyway...they're dancing to show off THEIR own dancing skills, not their skills as a dancer who can dance smoothly with another person.

Having said that, I don't think the chap I mentioned is falls into this category. He doesn't do it maliciously, but is such a strong dancer and has such a strong lead he doesn't realise how forceful he is. I'll tell him nicely next time and I know he's good-natured enough to accept it gracefully and do something about it.

scorpionguy said:

....... To put it mildly, in my eyes it looked like he saw them only as a piece of flesh to satisfy his tremendous ego, nothing more....

Click to expand...

You're right SG. This is all about his ego. Unfortunately, I see this all the time and makes me more reluctant about going out dancing in my area. :?

Aggrasive dancers....? Sure. Too many these days :roll: .

A lot of these people are still relatively new (3-5 years?), and very keen to test their skills for tricks & speeds. I find that given time, some of them do mellow out & finally able to enjoy the sensuality/foreplay side of salsa.

I think dancers can be like wines.......we matured with time/environment/experiences, that turn us from sour grapes into drops from heaven 8) .

Yeah, been there and saw that too... :lol:

Seriously, there is one word, and one word only, to describe such antics: EGO! :evil:

Personally I just don't get it. I mean seriously, I am dancing with a woman, not some piece of organic dance appartus! Also, for me dancing is about the connection (see here for more on this), which is entirely antithetical to such machismo driven posturing...

Oh, organic dance apparatus...I like that SD!!! If I ever change my nick it will be ODA

SDsalsaguy said:

Yeah, been there and saw that too... :lol:

Seriously, there is one word, and one word only, to describe such antics: EGO! :evil:

Personally I just don't get it. I mean seriously, I am dancing with a woman, not some piece of organic dance appartus! Also, for me dancing is about the connection (see here for more on this), which is entirely antithetical to such machismo driven posturing...

Click to expand...

Ditto about the type of connection I like. No aggressive dancing/connection. Feather-touch...connecting with someone precious...

I know this one guy, he is about 210Lbs solid muscle, he truly is a beast. He is an all right salsero, however, he doesn't know his own strength. He literally abuses the ladies on the dance floor. We are good friends so I have more of a leeway to bother him about his dancing skills.

One night I decided to show him what the difference between his and my dancing was, we were to ask the same girl to dance and see what her expressions were when dancing with each other. I asked a girl with big bushy hair, the kind that a little humidity turns into a forest. Well, after I was done dancing with her I went over to him and asked what did you see. He said she smiled a lot and was flirtatious. How is her hair, I asked. He said the same. Well, then it was his turn. After it was over, I asked him to look at her. What do you see, he look at me and said what do you mean.

I was like, dude, look at her hair, it looks like it was attacked by a gang of chickens looking for corn in a hay stack. You are too forceful. Look at her, her dress was all messed up, she was heavily breathing, and above all took a 2 song break after his dance. All he could say was that she didn’t know how to follow and why she looked as she did. That I’m too soft on her and why she didn’t get messed up like she did with him. But that she can’t follow, I proceeded to ask him if it didn’t have anything to do with his off-beatness and he said. “My timing is solid”… Boy, I’m still scratching my head.

Sometimes guys really don’t know that they are doing something. There is no blinder man than he who refuses to see.

Ok, enough on the guys… How about forcefull ladies,

Friday night I was dancing with this little, little lady, she couldn’t have been taller than 5 feet. My God, was she wild. I mean, I honestly compared her to trying to get a hold of 5 feet long bluefish with your bare hands. She was as wild as I have ever seen a technically sound dancer be. Through out the entire dance I felt like I was trying to hold a blender gone mad. My hands still shake from Friday night.

She threw her body everywhere, her dancing by no means matched the tempo of the song, and her moves were nowhere near smooth. And since I am not one of those guys who chooses to control the girl on the dance floor to show how great his lead is that he can tame a wild pony. I took a step back and said, go wild baby! I relaxed my lead and allowed her to go nuts. She was about 18 years old, so I’m hoping age had a lot to do with her eagerness to dance. God, how can such a little thing be so wild?

borikensalsero said:

I was like, dude, look at her hair, it looks like it was attacked by a gang of chickens looking corn in a hay stack. You are too forceful. Look at her, her dress was all messed up, she was heavily breathing, and above all took a 2 song break after his dance. All he could say was that she didn’t know how to follow and why she looked as she did. That I’m too soft on her and why she didn’t get messed up like she did with him. But that she can’t follow, I proceeded to ask him if it didn’t have anything to do with his off-beatness and he said. “My timing is solid”… Boy, I’m still scratching my head.

Sometimes guys really don’t know that they are doing something. There is no blinder man than he who refuses to see.

Click to expand...

ROTFL. Oh my! :lol: :lol: I can't believe he couldn't see what you were trying to show him. Really funny though.

borikensalsero said:

Ok, enough on the guys… How about forcefull ladies,

Friday night I was dancing with this little, little lady, she couldn’t have been taller than 5 feet. My God, was she wild. I mean, I honestly compared her to trying to get a hold of 5 feet long bluefish with your bare hands. She was as wild as I have ever seen a technically sound dancer be. Through out the entire dance I felt like I was trying to hold a blender gone mad. My hands still shake from Friday night.

She threw her body everywhere, her dancing by no means matched the tempo of the song, and her moves were nowhere near smooth. And since I am not one of those guys who chooses to control the girl on the dance floor to show how great his lead is that he can tame a wild pony. I took a step back and said, go wild baby! I relaxed my lead and allowed her to go nuts. She was about 18 years old, so I’m hoping age had a lot to do with her eagerness to dance. God, how can such a little thing be so wild?

Click to expand...

Oh Gee! You poor thing! Well, I guess it doesn't matter what size you are.

peachexploration said:

borikensalsero said:

I was like, dude, look at her hair, it looks like it was attacked by a gang of chickens looking corn in a hay stack. You are too forceful. Look at her, her dress was all messed up, she was heavily breathing, and above all took a 2 song break after his dance. All he could say was that she didn’t know how to follow and why she looked as she did. That I’m too soft on her and why she didn’t get messed up like she did with him. But that she can’t follow, I proceeded to ask him if it didn’t have anything to do with his off-beatness and he said. “My timing is solid”… Boy, I’m still scratching my head.

Sometimes guys really don’t know that they are doing something. There is no blinder man than he who refuses to see.

Click to expand...

ROTFL. Oh my! :lol: :lol: I can't believe he couldn't see what you were trying to show him. Really funny though.

Click to expand...

He refuses to believe that a bad dance has anything to do with him. He always blames the lady. He was gotten 100% better though, there was a time when I would leave with out him to the clubs just not to be embarrassed by the whiplash causing x-bodies he possessed. I hated when ladies would come up to me and asked what was wrong with my boy. I would always apologize for him and say that he doesn’t know his strength but that he is getting better, which he is, but still not where it should be.

He is a very machista guy. He was brought up in a household where the man is the man and the woman his servant. It is what the man says and anything the lady says is taken into consideration as long as it is the same thing the man says. At least he moved to the US when he was young enough to see that life really isn’t about what he says. However much he sees it, he still can’t live outside of that thinking, even in his dance.

Here is my question to this entire aggressive debacle. When you speak to these people they actually speak of salsa as sexy, sensual, like making love. But crap, what I wonder what kind of lovemaking they are talking about? I still don’t understand how they can say that salsa is so sexy when their dancing isn’t. I ask my friend, and he truly speaks like if he was in love with the music, yet when he dances, its more like he is taking his frustration outs on the lady. Now how does that equal to lovemaking? I try to understand, but I don’t. I hear him speak, he is passionate, but when he dances, there isn’t any passion there, there is just him, an attack on the girl, and the thought that dancing despite result is sexy… Hmmm, I refuse to believe that his definition of love and sexy is that much different than mine.

borikensalsero said:

Here is my question to this entire aggressive debacle. When you speak to these people they actually speak of salsa as sexy, sensual, like making love. But crap, what I wonder what kind of lovemaking they are talking about? I still don’t understand how they can say that salsa is so sexy when their dancing isn’t. I ask my friend, and he truly speaks like if he was in love with the music, yet when he dances, its more like he is taking his frustration outs on the lady. Now how does that equal to lovemaking? I try to understand, but I don’t. I hear him speak, he is passionate, but when he dances, there isn’t any passion there, there is just him, an attack on the girl, and the thought that dancing despite result is sexy… Hmmm, I refuse to believe that his definition of love and sexy is that much different than mine.

Click to expand...

Well, in my area, all I've seen is the machismo aspect of it. It's not really about dance at all. Sure, they may love Salsa but when on the dance floor (which for some people, is their area of control), they become this "I am King of the Universe" person. In this area, they do it in class as well as in the clubs. The sad part is, the instructors encourage it. I remember my first day of class was spent telling guys off and explaining what real Salsa is supposed to be and then I refused to dance with them. :evil: some people just don't get it. Sorry, don't mean to be negative. Just a sore subject with me. :cry: Maybe lovemaking means hitting the woman over the head with a club like in the old days. :twisted:

peachexploration said:

I remember my first day of class was spent telling guys off and explaining what real Salsa is supposed to be and then I refused to dance with them. :evil: some people just don't get it. Sorry, sore subject with me. :cry:

Click to expand...

lol :lol: :lol: ... Its good that you told them thought... At least you are planting a seed. Even if it hurt their egos, it is best to find out now before they build a lack luster philosphy of salsa dancing.

I don't think that there is an uglier dance than when the lady becomes an after thought. The other day, we were joking with this dude, who tried to spin a million times and almost fell, we told him he needed more practice. He pointed to us and said watch, for the rest of the song, he murdered the lady. The poor girl looked like she wanted no part of the egotistical display of proving the off balance spins were a mess-up. I felt so bad, I said to the guy standing next to me, looked what we have caused, we shouldn't have said a thing. Now he has to prove, why he is thought of as one of NY City's "cream of the crop" dancers. We all knew he was good, that is why jokingly said he needed practice... But after that display I lost all respect I had for him as a dancer.