DanceMentor
Administrator
Okay, so you've got the Lindy Hop, and Hollywood-style Lindy and Savoy-style Lindy. How did people coin the term "Flying Lindy"?
What is the Flying Lindy?
- Thread starter DanceMentor
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Black Sheep
New Member
Flyingg Lindy Hop
DanceMentor,
Good question. Last time I heard the word used was in the 1930's in Brooklyn when that was the common name for a fast kind of wild style of Savoy Lindy. I see semblances of it every now and then, Three dancers that come to mind are Brian Lee, Jeremy Oath, and Marshall Watson, three of our top ten WCS dancers. As far as I remember, it was a man's style of Swing dancing like the 'Freeze' is a lady's move or the hip twisting used by ladies..
Black Sheep, your friendly instructor.
DanceMentor,
Good question. Last time I heard the word used was in the 1930's in Brooklyn when that was the common name for a fast kind of wild style of Savoy Lindy. I see semblances of it every now and then, Three dancers that come to mind are Brian Lee, Jeremy Oath, and Marshall Watson, three of our top ten WCS dancers. As far as I remember, it was a man's style of Swing dancing like the 'Freeze' is a lady's move or the hip twisting used by ladies..
Black Sheep, your friendly instructor.
Vince A
Active Member
BlackSheep stirred the "brainwaves." I recall my Mom talking about the "Flying Lindy," and she is from Brooklyn and that era - late 30's early 40's. I can't ask her though . . . she's "Jitterbugging on that big dance floor in the sky!"DanceMentor said:
So, I think BlackSheep has pin-pointed the location of origin???
Some further research??? Maybe, yes???
Hollywood and Savoy are simply styles of lindy hop. The Flying Lindy has been said to be a different but related dance to the Lindy hop, a footwork variation to uptempo music, as well as simply a name used when you are doing any form of energetic Lindy Hop.
The Flying Lindy I learned in the late 90's from Martin Parker, it is a slotted version of the lindy hop swing out, sort of a fast eight count proto-West Coast Swing.
Leaders : Skip (L), skip (R), double skip (L)(L), skip (R), skip(L), double skip (R)(R) is the base footwork.
The followers reverse Left and Right above.
Breaking the dance down in writing is difficult. The skips are small kick-like motions with a small hop (just like when you were a kid). So a Left skip is a small "kick" with the left foot and a small "hop" on the right. On the double skips the "kicking" foot remains in the air between the two. The timing is the skip on the whole count the weight change after (depends on the music being played where in the space the weight change takes place).
The Flying Lindy I learned in the late 90's from Martin Parker, it is a slotted version of the lindy hop swing out, sort of a fast eight count proto-West Coast Swing.
Leaders : Skip (L), skip (R), double skip (L)(L), skip (R), skip(L), double skip (R)(R) is the base footwork.
The followers reverse Left and Right above.
Breaking the dance down in writing is difficult. The skips are small kick-like motions with a small hop (just like when you were a kid). So a Left skip is a small "kick" with the left foot and a small "hop" on the right. On the double skips the "kicking" foot remains in the air between the two. The timing is the skip on the whole count the weight change after (depends on the music being played where in the space the weight change takes place).
DanceMentor
Administrator
Is there still a rock step of sorts?
Otherwise, it seems like you are kind of replacing the triples with something faster. I've also heard of replacing the triples with singles when the music is really fast, but I'm not sure if you would call this Flying Lindy.
Otherwise, it seems like you are kind of replacing the triples with something faster. I've also heard of replacing the triples with singles when the music is really fast, but I'm not sure if you would call this Flying Lindy.
Black Sheep
New Member
Origin of the name!
Vince
The origin of the name, 'The Flying Lindy Hop was in honor of Charles Lindbergh's firs airplane flight across the Atlantic on May 22, 1927. I never knew what they called the Lindy before 1927, but Frankie Manning aught to know.
Although I was a wallflower until 1949, I was president of a teenage Social Cellar Club for two years where I saw and tried to learn the Lindy without success, and my Bear Trap memory still holds the visualization of those moves.
And D'nice I don't want to question your teacher, Martin Parker's rendition of the Flying Lindy in the 1990's, but Lindy dancers never skipped unless the were playing hop scotch. Lindy dancers of the 1930's and into the 1950's prided themselves with ultra smooth dance moves above all styling pointers. If Martin Parker is still alive, D'nice, I'd ask for my money back!
Black Sheep, your friendly instructor.
Vince
The origin of the name, 'The Flying Lindy Hop was in honor of Charles Lindbergh's firs airplane flight across the Atlantic on May 22, 1927. I never knew what they called the Lindy before 1927, but Frankie Manning aught to know.
Although I was a wallflower until 1949, I was president of a teenage Social Cellar Club for two years where I saw and tried to learn the Lindy without success, and my Bear Trap memory still holds the visualization of those moves.
And D'nice I don't want to question your teacher, Martin Parker's rendition of the Flying Lindy in the 1990's, but Lindy dancers never skipped unless the were playing hop scotch. Lindy dancers of the 1930's and into the 1950's prided themselves with ultra smooth dance moves above all styling pointers. If Martin Parker is still alive, D'nice, I'd ask for my money back!
Black Sheep, your friendly instructor.
There are lots of styles of lindy hop, some of them are quite "bouncey". The moves are lead smoothly of course as they should be, but smooth as in "gliding" type of effect is but a very narrow branch on the Lindy Hop style tree.
Not to mention skips that involve a great deal of momentum and revolve tend to be rather flat: long on the horizontal plane and low on the vertical the vertical plane.
Dance Mentor: switching to single steps and kicks is not necessarily the Flying Lindy. There are many ways to adjust one's Lindy Hop at faster tempos without using the dynamic or aesthetic done in the Flying Lindy.
Not to mention skips that involve a great deal of momentum and revolve tend to be rather flat: long on the horizontal plane and low on the vertical the vertical plane.
Dance Mentor: switching to single steps and kicks is not necessarily the Flying Lindy. There are many ways to adjust one's Lindy Hop at faster tempos without using the dynamic or aesthetic done in the Flying Lindy.
Black Sheep
New Member
eighht count Flying Lindy?
Flying Lidy buffs,
The Flying Lindy Hop (FLH) was a term used from 1927 to post WW II years in New York City. I never heard the term Flying Lindy used on the West Coast in tyhe 1950's and I met and danced with a lot of dancers that claimed they took lessons from Dean Collins, who usually apologized to me about their poor dancing. Although Dean was my Lindy Mentor since 1955 until a year before his death, I never heard him use the Term Flying Lindy, and Dean taught me everything he knew about swing not only by demonstration but observing him teaching in my studio for two years and taking classes from him in 1980 . Dean had a strange history; he came out top L.A. from New Jersey in 1932 or so and danced the Chain Studio Swing, so Flying Lindy probably wasn't even in his vocabulary, because only New Yorkers used the term FLH. During WWII I faked my Lindy dancing all over the country and never heard the term FLH.
There is another factor in Martin Parker's rendition of the FLH that belies his claim to knowing and teaching you the Flying Lindy, and that term that you use in your description above has 'EIGHT counts'; the term 'Eight' count Swing/ Lindy only came into vogue in the mid 1980's and Dean was already gone by then. And so how does Martin claim that Dean taught him an eight county Flying Lindy. Your theory is full of holes, not your fault D'nice, I was taken in by so called former Dean students until I saw them dance. I don't doubt that they might have taken a few lessons from Dean, but that definitely does not qualify them as an authority on Dean's dance techniques of the 1950's which were very different from his Chain Studio Swim of the 1940's. Hal Trakier did about every trick aerial existing in the 1940's and I know the man has integrity and he is honest about everything in his career. I've seen him dance in 1940's videos and up until a year ago. When you accuse Hal of hopping, you do him an injustice, Hal was then and is today, one very smooth dancer.
So the bottom line is: The term FLH was NEVER used in any form of Lindy before the Mid 1980's, unless it was used by a choreographer who needed a guide for his chorus of dancers to follow or by some teacher from Shamokin, USA.
D'nice I respect your knowledge, and your view points are just as valid as anyone else's including mine.
I hope these pearls I've shared with you are not lost or taken as criticisms.
After all, I was personally there in New York City up until 1946 and in Hollywood in the 1950's with the largest student body of ballroom dancers in Greater L.A.
No one expects you to doubt that your teacher took some lessons from Dean Collins.
One last bit of history: If Dean Collins taught all the people who claimed he did, Dean would have died a wealthy man.
Black Sheep, your friendly instructor.
Flying Lidy buffs,
The Flying Lindy Hop (FLH) was a term used from 1927 to post WW II years in New York City. I never heard the term Flying Lindy used on the West Coast in tyhe 1950's and I met and danced with a lot of dancers that claimed they took lessons from Dean Collins, who usually apologized to me about their poor dancing. Although Dean was my Lindy Mentor since 1955 until a year before his death, I never heard him use the Term Flying Lindy, and Dean taught me everything he knew about swing not only by demonstration but observing him teaching in my studio for two years and taking classes from him in 1980 . Dean had a strange history; he came out top L.A. from New Jersey in 1932 or so and danced the Chain Studio Swing, so Flying Lindy probably wasn't even in his vocabulary, because only New Yorkers used the term FLH. During WWII I faked my Lindy dancing all over the country and never heard the term FLH.
There is another factor in Martin Parker's rendition of the FLH that belies his claim to knowing and teaching you the Flying Lindy, and that term that you use in your description above has 'EIGHT counts'; the term 'Eight' count Swing/ Lindy only came into vogue in the mid 1980's and Dean was already gone by then. And so how does Martin claim that Dean taught him an eight county Flying Lindy. Your theory is full of holes, not your fault D'nice, I was taken in by so called former Dean students until I saw them dance. I don't doubt that they might have taken a few lessons from Dean, but that definitely does not qualify them as an authority on Dean's dance techniques of the 1950's which were very different from his Chain Studio Swim of the 1940's. Hal Trakier did about every trick aerial existing in the 1940's and I know the man has integrity and he is honest about everything in his career. I've seen him dance in 1940's videos and up until a year ago. When you accuse Hal of hopping, you do him an injustice, Hal was then and is today, one very smooth dancer.
So the bottom line is: The term FLH was NEVER used in any form of Lindy before the Mid 1980's, unless it was used by a choreographer who needed a guide for his chorus of dancers to follow or by some teacher from Shamokin, USA.
D'nice I respect your knowledge, and your view points are just as valid as anyone else's including mine.
I hope these pearls I've shared with you are not lost or taken as criticisms.
After all, I was personally there in New York City up until 1946 and in Hollywood in the 1950's with the largest student body of ballroom dancers in Greater L.A.
No one expects you to doubt that your teacher took some lessons from Dean Collins.
One last bit of history: If Dean Collins taught all the people who claimed he did, Dean would have died a wealthy man.
Black Sheep, your friendly instructor.
*sigh*
What a surprise.
I'm glad that at this point there is more than enough information already on this board that I don't have to go and pick this post of yours apart piece by piece.
What I will say is that anyone who actually wants to see authentic lindy hop should check out the various films with Whitey's Lindy Hoppers. If you are interested I can give you list of various films and documentries that contain clips of the dance. Once you see any one of these you'll understand and agree with my view of lindy hop. Guarantied.
What a surprise.
I'm glad that at this point there is more than enough information already on this board that I don't have to go and pick this post of yours apart piece by piece.
What I will say is that anyone who actually wants to see authentic lindy hop should check out the various films with Whitey's Lindy Hoppers. If you are interested I can give you list of various films and documentries that contain clips of the dance. Once you see any one of these you'll understand and agree with my view of lindy hop. Guarantied.
It is possible I got Martin's credentials wrong. If you say he wasn't a student you can check Martin's credentials by talking to him. He operates a school in Costa Mesa. 2980 A & B McClintock Way Costa Mesa, CA. 92626 SW corner of Fairview & Baker 714-641-8688. I'm sure he'd happily answer any questions you may have.
Black Sheep
New Member
The Hop in 'Lindy Hop'
Check my Credentials,
I finally figured out why someone thinks that the Flying Lindy was a hopping dance. The word 'Hop in Lindy Hop refers to Charles Lindburgh 'Hop' over the Atlantic.
And if someone doing the Lindy is 'Hopping' all over the place then they are just not accomplished smooth dancers. But the "Hop' in Lindy does not describe the dance style, it just describes Lindburgh's 'Hop' over the Atlantic.
As for naming names to verify my facts, the primary source is always the most authentic and reliable. And as for the Swing Scene in the 1950's in Hollywood, the primary source was, is and will continue to be the man who lived and earned his bread from 1949 until 1963 as a professional dancer, was 'JOE LANZA'. And you can't find a better 'PRIMARY SOURCE' for that place and era.
One more misquote by the Champion misQuoter:
I did not say Martin Parker never took lessons from Dean Collins; What I said was:
1) "There is another factor in Martin Parker's rendition of the FLH that belies his claim to knowing and teaching you the Flying Lindy, and that is the term that you use in your description above which has 'EIGHT counts'; the term 'Eight' count Swing/ Lindy only came into vogue in the mid 1980's and Dean was already gone by then. And so how does Martin claim that Dean taught him an 'Eight Count' Flying Lindy. Your theory is full of holes, not your fault D'nice. I was taken in by so called former Dean students until I saw them dance."
2) "I don't doubt that they might have taken a few lessons from Dean, but that definitely does not qualify them as an authority on Dean's dance techniques of the 1950's".
How in heavens do you manage to mis-read, misunderstand, misquote and misconstrue so often without ever thinking of apologizing.
Although, Martin Parker's rendition of the Flying Lindy Skip, I mean Hop, is not the Flying Lindy that I recall, the skipping, hopping breakdown that you described sounds like you have a new novelty dance like Chubby Checker's, 'The Twist'. If you video your new 'Skipping-Hopping' dance, I'll write a song for it and I'll be the first to order a copy. But we have to think of a commercial new name! Any suggestions out there?
Black Sheep, your friendly instructor.
Check my Credentials,
I finally figured out why someone thinks that the Flying Lindy was a hopping dance. The word 'Hop in Lindy Hop refers to Charles Lindburgh 'Hop' over the Atlantic.
And if someone doing the Lindy is 'Hopping' all over the place then they are just not accomplished smooth dancers. But the "Hop' in Lindy does not describe the dance style, it just describes Lindburgh's 'Hop' over the Atlantic.
As for naming names to verify my facts, the primary source is always the most authentic and reliable. And as for the Swing Scene in the 1950's in Hollywood, the primary source was, is and will continue to be the man who lived and earned his bread from 1949 until 1963 as a professional dancer, was 'JOE LANZA'. And you can't find a better 'PRIMARY SOURCE' for that place and era.
One more misquote by the Champion misQuoter:
I did not say Martin Parker never took lessons from Dean Collins; What I said was:
1) "There is another factor in Martin Parker's rendition of the FLH that belies his claim to knowing and teaching you the Flying Lindy, and that is the term that you use in your description above which has 'EIGHT counts'; the term 'Eight' count Swing/ Lindy only came into vogue in the mid 1980's and Dean was already gone by then. And so how does Martin claim that Dean taught him an 'Eight Count' Flying Lindy. Your theory is full of holes, not your fault D'nice. I was taken in by so called former Dean students until I saw them dance."
2) "I don't doubt that they might have taken a few lessons from Dean, but that definitely does not qualify them as an authority on Dean's dance techniques of the 1950's".
How in heavens do you manage to mis-read, misunderstand, misquote and misconstrue so often without ever thinking of apologizing.
Although, Martin Parker's rendition of the Flying Lindy Skip, I mean Hop, is not the Flying Lindy that I recall, the skipping, hopping breakdown that you described sounds like you have a new novelty dance like Chubby Checker's, 'The Twist'. If you video your new 'Skipping-Hopping' dance, I'll write a song for it and I'll be the first to order a copy. But we have to think of a commercial new name! Any suggestions out there?
Black Sheep, your friendly instructor.
Joe you are not a primary source. What you says is completely at odds what the living legends of Lindy Hop say. It is completely at odds with all film footage of the dance. You provide no verifiable evidence to support your claims at all. None. When questioned you respond with something along the lines of I was there.
Sorry not good enough when dozens of people, with direct roots to the dance as done in Harlem in the Depression, directly contradict your statements. THEY are primary sources.
Sorry not good enough when dozens of people, with direct roots to the dance as done in Harlem in the Depression, directly contradict your statements. THEY are primary sources.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Origin of the name!
Joe, what are your views on these clips? Anyone else also, would this Lindy Hop be considered to have "hop" in it?
ftp://209.236.120.33/notd.asf (short, with quick download)
ftp://209.236.120.33/moonball.avi (long, with big download)
These are from the Harvest Moon Championships which ran for 40 years and was one of the most recognized major competitions for Lindy Hop and other dances (Rock n Roll, Hustle, Waltz, etc.)
A HM website: http://www.savoyballroom.com/exp/notforgotten/hmbpre.htm
There is a fair amount of video available from the 30's to 50's, some choreographed, some social and some competitions. From those alone, not including testimonials from those around before the 1950's, the 50's dancers did pride themselves on ultra-smooth style. However, there were differences between them and those before that time span. Do you have any favorite videos from before the 1950's?
-FF
Black Sheep said:
Joe, what are your views on these clips? Anyone else also, would this Lindy Hop be considered to have "hop" in it?
ftp://209.236.120.33/notd.asf (short, with quick download)
ftp://209.236.120.33/moonball.avi (long, with big download)
These are from the Harvest Moon Championships which ran for 40 years and was one of the most recognized major competitions for Lindy Hop and other dances (Rock n Roll, Hustle, Waltz, etc.)
A HM website: http://www.savoyballroom.com/exp/notforgotten/hmbpre.htm
There is a fair amount of video available from the 30's to 50's, some choreographed, some social and some competitions. From those alone, not including testimonials from those around before the 1950's, the 50's dancers did pride themselves on ultra-smooth style. However, there were differences between them and those before that time span. Do you have any favorite videos from before the 1950's?
-FF