Jealous with deep respect
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I don't do AT, so this question is coming from a place of deep ignorance 
:
I assume this is a choreographed routine. It didn't really look like lead and follow to me. The woman sometimes seemed to be almost slightly ahead of the man, in timing, rather than truly responding to leads. Anyone else see that, or do I just not know how to watch AT?
:I assume this is a choreographed routine. It didn't really look like lead and follow to me. The woman sometimes seemed to be almost slightly ahead of the man, in timing, rather than truly responding to leads. Anyone else see that, or do I just not know how to watch AT?
No, it doesn't look choreographed to me. I've been dancing AT for year, and in theory I could lead most of those steps, although not with nearly the same grace and polish. They've likely been dancing partners long enough that they are very sensitive to each other.
As far as her looking to be slightly ahead of the man, what generally happens in AT is that the man proposes a step (usually with his torso), the woman executes it, and the man takes his step once he knows she's gotten the signal. So the man actually follows the woman in many cases.
Waltzgirl is right.
On some occasions she goes without man's lead.
It's not choreographed routine, but since they are couple, and she actively listen to the music on some occasions she may go on her own.
And it's question of style of a certain couple.
Some do it completely lead and follow, sometimes leader lets follower some elements on her own.
That's the beauty of tango.
On some occasions she goes without man's lead.
It's not choreographed routine, but since they are couple, and she actively listen to the music on some occasions she may go on her own.
And it's question of style of a certain couple.
Some do it completely lead and follow, sometimes leader lets follower some elements on her own.
That's the beauty of tango.
bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
reminds me of a Zen tale
Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: “The flag is moving.”
The other said: “The wind is blowing.”
A wise monk happened to be passing by. He told them: “Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving.”
opendoor
Forum Master
Hi waltzgirl, in tango everything leadable should look like rehearsed. This really is a spontaneous impro, but, admittedly, Roxana will know some of his routines well.
I can lead everything in this performance spontaneously, without problems (but I´m far from his elegance, shines and stylings
)At 1:43 the people start clapping, because there is an unusual doubling in the steps of the girl. But it is lead very easily.
In 2:10 a passage with rulos, enrosques and sacadas follows while Roxana walks bravely the molinete circle. You are right then, here she actually knows what will come.
bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
Hi waltzgirl, in tango everything leadable should look like rehearsed. This really is a spontaneous impro, but, admittedly, Roxana will know some of his routines well.
I can lead everything in this performance spontaneously, without problems (but I´m far from his elegance, shines and stylings
At 1:43 the people start clapping, because there is an unusual doubling in the steps of the girl. But it is lead very easily.
.
but the clapping is choreographed; but the dance is not
bastet
Active Member
that was pretty seriously elegant.
I agree that since they are a couple, and know each others dancing and the routines they have done so well, then they may have an air of "rehearsed" to them.
But I can also tell he is leading, and following her in those instances like the cute walk around where she double times. He is a leading the movement around, and giving an indication that she is to continue with forward steps (as opposed to making a giro) but I think she was playing out the music as she heard it with the timing, and he followed her decision.
For dancers of their level, he would always know where she was at, and because of the way the music was playing, and where he initiated the walk around, he would be highly unlikely to have ended it before the end of the phrase, so only needed to know where she was at that point to decide how to resolve it (at least IMO and from what I could glean of their body language in the video).
I agree that since they are a couple, and know each others dancing and the routines they have done so well, then they may have an air of "rehearsed" to them.
But I can also tell he is leading, and following her in those instances like the cute walk around where she double times. He is a leading the movement around, and giving an indication that she is to continue with forward steps (as opposed to making a giro) but I think she was playing out the music as she heard it with the timing, and he followed her decision.
For dancers of their level, he would always know where she was at, and because of the way the music was playing, and where he initiated the walk around, he would be highly unlikely to have ended it before the end of the phrase, so only needed to know where she was at that point to decide how to resolve it (at least IMO and from what I could glean of their body language in the video).
Peaches
Well-Known Member
I didn't see that at all.I don't do AT, so this question is coming from a place of deep ignorance
I assume this is a choreographed routine. It didn't really look like lead and follow to me. The woman sometimes seemed to be almost slightly ahead of the man, in timing, rather than truly responding to leads. Anyone else see that, or do I just not know how to watch AT?
Could you point out specific places where you saw this, and maybe that would help us better respond?
To me this looked like pure lead and follow. There was one place where I wasn't sure if she followed "correctly," but it also looked like if she hadn't then he covered for her without missing a beat.
Perhaps what you are seeing is the fact that the man can ask for all kinds of movement without moving himself? There is sort of a lead to move the free leg, which is then separate lead from the indication to change weight.
opendoor
Forum Master
oh, that would make a fine example for spontaneous communication between sensitive dancers. But I mean, I saw kind of a slight upwards direction in his lead. This anyway would be my signal, besides the prevention from the usual molinete steps.
Subliminal
Well-Known Member
I've danced with a couple followers who are just... incredibly sensitive. An exaggerated leading movement is just too much, all you need is a slight movement, which would be nearly invisible to an outsider. As for 2:10, I have been working on a similar step, and I will just say while I'm far from perfecting it, what he is doing is 100% lead follow. That movement only works if the leader and follower are in sync. It's sort of an exchange of energy. He gives her a little energy into the turn, then steals some of the energy back as she twists his body into a spiral... which he then lets unwind to power the next part of the turn.
I don't do AT, so this question is coming from a place of deep ignorance
I assume this is a choreographed routine. It didn't really look like lead and follow to me. The woman sometimes seemed to be almost slightly ahead of the man, in timing, rather than truly responding to leads. Anyone else see that, or do I just not know how to watch AT?
As expected I disagree. The order of the choreography may be not be fixed
but these two are regular professional performance dance partners and have been
for some years. Anything they do is to impress and they clearly have impressed
many on here. There is too much about this dance to criticise to even start.
This isn't social Argentine Tango. By all means learn from this but only if you are
aiming to perform at or near that standard or know you will have milonga floors
to yourselves. If you accept it as a performance dance then it stands on its own
merit for what it is but please don't use it as a role model for social dancing.
This isn't especially musical Tango either. For the first few phrases it is connected
and they set the scene with a beautifully timed embrace to the music but later on
it mainly ignored the musical lament that is Tristezas de La Calle Corrientes.
Read more about it here:
http://www.tangoandchaos.org/chapt_4music/22tristezas.htm
and listen to Libertad Lamarques most plaintively expressive version.
If you're seeking "Tango Bliss" you won't get it with this sort of dancing.
That's your choice. What's worse is you won't be in any state of blissful
co-operation with other dancers on the floor either.
bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
utter balderdash;1. there is no prescriptive way of acheiving tango bliss
2. They know they have the floor to themselves, but all that could be done in a milonga; there's nothing wild or uncotrolloed about their dancing.