Getting criticised on my tango walk by a newbie!

rain_dog said:
...
That said, I think about 95% of the men I see dancing don't collect enough either (including myself), so you're in good company :)
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This is the second time a comment has been made about leaders collecting. I've never heard that it was important.

I do collect many times, but it's more of a styling idea than a technical idea. There are also times when I dance with my feet apart, to establish a strong base.

I do think it's important for followers to collect, for reasons that don't pertain to leading.
 
As far as I'm concerned, being a newbie, along with being a complainer, is an incompatible mix for me. I wouldn't dance with her again (at least not until I'd forgotten about it).

My rule of thumb is that if you are going to be complaining while dancing, you had better be really good.
 
I know a lot of girls that after having three weeks of privates (lessons and nights) are better dancers than guys trying to climb the greasy pole for three years with little money.
 
I think there's a situational balancing act between just never dancing with a partner again, no reason given, versus trying to give a reason, gently, so the other person will understand and have a chance to react.

IMO, the only person who is allowed to give instruction is a teacher, while in their own class, because it's given that the student wants instruction from that teacher. If someone wants to tell me how to dance, I have the choice to let them know my feelings about it, or merely not dance with them again. I would lean toward trying to come to an understanding with the other person. And I would try to conceal my sarcastic side.
 
I would too take time out! If there is time and strenth it could be a good idea to ask someone else for opinion; maybe a teacher?

AndaBien said:
I do collect many times, but it's more of a styling idea than a technical idea. There are also times when I dance with my feet apart, to establish a strong base.
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Especially in full ochos it can be a good thing to collect because then you know where your axis as a leader is. If you don't collect, your axis can be slightly behind and make it more difficult for the follower to reach her axis for the turn. When she is on her axis and your axis is behind the abrazo gets more tight and forceful compared to the feeling of it in the middle of the follower step to next turn.
(knowledge through own sweat,blod and tears :) )
 
AndaBien said:
I think there's a situational balancing act between just never dancing with a partner again, no reason given, versus trying to give a reason, gently, so the other person will understand and have a chance to react.

IMO, the only person who is allowed to give instruction is a teacher, while in their own class, because it's given that the student wants instruction from that teacher. If someone wants to tell me how to dance, I have the choice to let them know my feelings about it, or merely not dance with them again. I would lean toward trying to come to an understanding with the other person. And I would try to conceal my sarcastic side.
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excellent points as she is friendly otherwise. last week was just a bad bad dance week 4 me many reasons incl heart break

she is already way beyond most followers for 3 weeks - the ballet helps I guess. I do collect a lot but she wants me to walk a very narrow line and not natural walk



also it was a pratica so next time I will get the instructor to give an opinion thanks

ps she also comments at dances both good and bad

thx all
 
I understand that follower could criticize more experienced dancer.
I receive a complaint about a guy who dance toe first, and she usually dance with guys who dance heel first.
I don't want to a debate again.
It was a vals, and she doesn't that very often. So it was really awkard for her.
Well she didn't try to correct him.

It happens that beginner know the right way.
One other girl said that one teacher didn't dance well cause they almost fell.
The trick was that she had had some bad habit and some things didn't do properly at that time.
We all know that some people want to dance fast so the learn figures. :oops:

Only polite thing at milonga is to to say thank and leave if you are not enjoying
or ask partner if sth can be adjusted.
Criticizing is a big no no.

People at beginning of their dancing career treat their teachers as gods, which they aren't.
 
Earlier in the thread (as I remember it) someone expressed the opinion, more or less, that "this to shall pass." I wish it was so.

I took lessons obsessively (but not so much that I was no longer absorbing what I was supposed to be learning) for 2 1/2 years, and danced weekly for another 5 or 6 years. The "helpful suggestions" from short timers never stopped.
Now in case you think, well, it must be you, then...

There were numerous times when, after some discussion, I would say, OK, lets ask the "teacher." This was either in class or at the practica that I went to for years. Invariably, after the usual, here you do it with me, now I'll do it with them "test," I would be left alone and the "helpful suggester" would receive additional instruction.

So, from my perspective, it's going to happen. And the only thing you can do is decide how you are going to react to it.
 
aaah said:
hello all,
Receiving a lot of criticism about my walk. The critic is a 3 week beginner lady who told me I don't collect my feet enough and that I need to dance with more passion like I want to walk forcefully right through her with long strides...
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I can be a smart knat when when someone does something that I perceive as antisocial, like someone trying to teach me at a Milonga, but my gut response would have been something like: "I might dance like that to Piazzola's Libertango, but not to this song. Biagi, begs shorter, more rhythmic steps, like I am doing now." I have learned that with a response like this, she will either think I am a jerk and then reject me next time I ask her to dance, in which case I would rather not dance with her anyway or she will reserve judgment and eventually she will understand me and Tango in general better.

If a follow told me that I am not collecting enough, I would assume that she means that she cannot feel my axis. Some follower beginners without good sensitivity need an extremely strong, defined axis, so I would not get offended, but would just change my style for her and give her a strong, pronounced, exaggerated axis so that she can really feel it. Usually I can tell if she is not feeling my axis, because her steps will "drift" a bit, so I think this is my fault. On the other hand, marking the axis too strongly will sacrifice smoothness and comfort, so it needs to be adjusted to more subtle again after dancing with a beginner. Sometimes I see an advanced dancer with an advanced follow marking the axis too strongly and the follow isn't enjoying it and I can tell he has spent the last hour dancing with beginners.

Technical point: Collection is either stylistic, or a learning technique before learning to "project your axis." Once you can project your axis, in my opinion, collection becomes largely unnecessary, but it doesn't hurt to revisit it at times to strengthen balance or to use in more advanced moves like some subtle close embrace colgadas or leader's back cross to pivots that can be extremely difficult without collection.
 
I'm of the opinion that collecting is incidental, that is, it's not done on purpose. Purposeful collecting is poor technique, especially on the part of the woman because tango is a dance from the waist up. Newbies who are taught to collect are being taught by teachers who don't understand the mechanics of movement nor the social aspects of the dance. These teachers are probably stage dancers where collecting looks good but on a social dance floor, it becomes a hindrance to navigation.
 
AndaBien said:
This is the second time a comment has been made about leaders collecting. I've never heard that it was important.

I do collect many times, but it's more of a styling idea than a technical idea. There are also times when I dance with my feet apart, to establish a strong base.

I do think it's important for followers to collect, for reasons that don't pertain to leading.
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I know that you learned from Cacho Dante. Most of the milongueros viejos in BA do the same. Their focus is remaining steady for the woman to dance. Their steps are not important.

When it's tango on stage or an exhibition you will see something else.
 
Mad Tango Scientist said:
If a follow told me that I am not collecting enough, I would assume that she means that she cannot feel my axis. Some follower beginners without good sensitivity need an extremely strong, defined axis, so I would not get offended, but would just change my style for her and give her a strong, pronounced, exaggerated axis so that she can really feel it. Usually I can tell if she is not feeling my axis, because her steps will "drift" a bit, so I think this is my fault. On the other hand, marking the axis too strongly will sacrifice smoothness and comfort, so it needs to be adjusted to more subtle again after dancing with a beginner. Sometimes I see an advanced dancer with an advanced follow marking the axis too strongly and the follow isn't enjoying it and I can tell he has spent the last hour dancing with beginners.

Technical point: Collection is either stylistic, or a learning technique before learning to "project your axis." Once you can project your axis, in my opinion, collection becomes largely unnecessary, but it doesn't hurt to revisit it at times to strengthen balance or to use in more advanced moves like some subtle close embrace colgadas or leader's back cross to pivots that can be extremely difficult without collection.
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mad tango scientist

what do you mean by projecting my axis can you explain this?
 
Not speaking for anyone else - to me it means letting your partner know, clearly and simply, where your axis is. Dancing in a way that she can find it easily.
 
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