Getting criticised on my tango walk by a newbie!

aaah said:
what is your take on newbies telling you how to do it

-- and how would you handle if you still want to dance with them just without the criticism
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Well, It seems that you took it too personally. :eek:
What is your reputation in AT community.

The trick is that beginners are full of enthusiasm and are infatuated with tango.
They like want to eat, breath, and feel tango 24/7.

The easiest way to be the smart one is to criticize somebody.
She did that to you and you fell for it.
It seems that you need to develop communication skills. :cool:

Just ask her what's unclear to her, let her do talking what she would like
and since you have been dancing try to deliver it.

And since she doesn't have manners I would avoid her,
since the leaders make the invitation for the dance. :)
 
Steve Pastor said:
Now in case you think, well, it must be you, then...

There were numerous times when, after some discussion, I would say, OK, lets ask the "teacher." This was either in class or at the practica that I went to for years. Invariably, after the usual, here you do it with me, now I'll do it with them "test," I would be left alone and the "helpful suggester" would receive additional instruction.

So, from my perspective, it's going to happen. And the only thing you can do is decide how you are going to react to it.
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Yeah, during classes, that's a good way to handle it, and it's pretty funny how often the "correcter" gets schooled by the teacher.
 
dchester said:
Yeah, during classes, that's a good way to handle it, and it's pretty funny how often the "correcter" gets schooled by the teacher.
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I've lost count of how many times this has happened to me. I'd say 90% of the times I've gotten "corrected" by a partner in class (regardless of whether I was leading or following) this was the result. I've learned (in class or lesson situations) to not respond directly, but immediately start seeking out the instructor for help.

On a general note, Rebecca Shulman said something wonderful in a class I took from her: "You know what's not sexy in Tango? Talking. Talking is not sexy. Work it out without words, and if you can't, ask me for help."

Of course, in a practica, talking is somewhat expected. Unsolicited correction and "instruction" however, is not.
 
I've learned simply not respond in a verbal way. I will let her have her way and not dance with her again. It's the most subtle and kind way not to injure her feelings at the moment. However, she'll get the hint that she sucks when I don't ask her to dance again.
 
aaah said:
ps she also comments at dances both good and bad
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I imagine this will eventually come around to bite her. Always commenting (instead of saving commenting for only when you have something good to say) often results in a reputation that gets around.

In my community, followers will talk amongst themselves and gripe about the leaders who do this. I imagine leaders do as well. Word gets around that the person isn't all that enjoyable to dance with due to their attitude. The word becomes "don't worry about dancing with him or whether he is asking you for dances". Occasionally it gets bad enough that followers start complaining to teachers and organizers that so-and-so needs to be given a good "talking to".

Someone probably needs to take her aside and gently suggest that she hold her tongue until she's been dancing for at least a year. (or permanently)

I don't think this should be you however.
 
Maybe you might turn it around... instead of responding to her 'critique' as if it was something YOU need to fix, simply say "Let's see why you are not getting it? If you feel x, then you need to figure out why you feel as if it is not coming from me"? Realistically, beginners have such poor understanding and such undeveloped senses that you might (if she actually can over time 'get it') be able to make her more sensitive to what is really happening! I dance abllroom, and the most common 'critique' I get from beginners is along the lines of 'I don't feel your lead like xxxx's' when xxxx is a clumsy and rough guy who uses his arms and no body movement. Beginners many times mistake brute force for a 'lead'..
 
Bailamosdance said:
Maybe you might turn it around... instead of responding to her 'critique' as if it was something YOU need to fix, simply say "Let's see why you are not getting it? If you feel x, then you need to figure out why you feel as if it is not coming from me"? Realistically, beginners have such poor understanding and such undeveloped senses that you might (if she actually can over time 'get it') be able to make her more sensitive to what is really happening! I dance abllroom, and the most common 'critique' I get from beginners is along the lines of 'I don't feel your lead like xxxx's' when xxxx is a clumsy and rough guy who uses his arms and no body movement. Beginners many times mistake brute force for a 'lead'..
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Ugh. I have lost count of the lessons with beginners where the lady tells her leader, "you need to push me here, like she does when she leads." This, of course, gives me an opportunity to explain that what they feel is not the result of me pushing her, but of my body moving my frame, which then moves her. They think they know what they're feeling, but they don't.

On the other hand, yesterday I heard the lament of a beginner leader who went to his first practica and was told by an experienced follower that he must always step forward on the left foot. *sigh*...it's not just beginners who are a problem.
 
twnkltoz said:
...
I heard the lament of a beginner leader who went to his first practica and was told by an experienced follower that he must always step forward on the left foot. *sigh*...it's not just beginners who are a problem.
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IMO, that's not an experienced follower.
 
opendoor said:
Misspelling or is there actually a concept like this? I only use the term step projection. But, of course we also do control the axis of our dance partners..
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I know that it is not universal language, but I call it projecting the axis because I can't think of a better way to say it. What I am talking about is the concept of when the lead presents his or her axis to the follow with each step. Some tango dancers use compression to do this, others use tension (tensing up the axis), others use grounded steps, still others use collection.
 
Bailamosdance said:
Maybe you might turn it around... instead of responding to her 'critique' as if it was something YOU need to fix, simply say "Let's see why you are not getting it? If you feel x, then you need to figure out why you feel as if it is not coming from me"? Realistically, beginners have such poor understanding and such undeveloped senses that you might (if she actually can over time 'get it') be able to make her more sensitive to what is really happening! I dance abllroom, and the most common 'critique' I get from beginners is along the lines of 'I don't feel your lead like xxxx's' when xxxx is a clumsy and rough guy who uses his arms and no body movement. Beginners many times mistake brute force for a 'lead'..
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funny and true! I think that is happening --she told me to press my leg betweens hers forcefully

all good - next time I will mention I don't stage tango
 
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