Tango Argentino > What are the 5 top reasons that make a man ask a woman to dance? Beauty comes first?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Paula M, Jul 29, 2010.

  1. LadyLeader

    LadyLeader Active Member

    As you pointed out there are differences. In our community the milongas have developed to different directions, specific groups are attending some and some are mixing clearly distinguished groups from other milongas. So at one milonga you are maybe asked for a dance a lot but not so some other evenings.

    I wonder, do you find this kind of splitting good or bad?
  2. LoveTango

    LoveTango Member

    They all make sense.

    Especially this one. Once I sat next to a very popular girl. I dare not to look anywhere but the floor. Because I am afraid that my poor eyesight would mistaken her dance as mine.
  3. Hock Siew

    Hock Siew New Member

    Number #2 on NZ Guy`s list is also one of the main reasons that I would hesitate to ask a good dancer. I`m very inexperienced myself; and furthermore, I am dancing in a scene that is new to me (I just moved here).
  4. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    So what? In both cases you won't dance with her. I find it more confusing when a follower is looking at you. Is it cabeceo? Or is she just staring at you? (e.g. trying to remember in which milonga she saw you last time)

    It will.

    Ask the guy. That is, not inviting him, but asking him if you may invite the lady. For more fun, do it loud enough, so the lady can hear.
  5. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I hate it when leaders do this... if my partner says yes, it puts me in a very awkward position to then say no if it's someone I don't want to dance with and the guy loses face in front of other people (namely: my partner) It's much easier to turn someone down in other ways at other times.

    If you feel you MUST ask the woman's date, do it privately just between the 2 of you, so that she doesn't feel put on the spot by her date sitting there saying "Yes, by all means, please dance with her!". If you approach the lady's date privately, she still has all her usual ways of refusing available to her (like avoiding you completely)

    And what happens if her date says yes, and she says no? Other leaders may not realize that it was just YOU she didn't want to dance with... they may get the impression that the date was the obstacle. Then she's a pariah all night.

    Also, if you DON"T ask the date, then she can use her date as an excuse if she doesn't want to dance with you, and no one needs to feel rejected.

    Maybe I'm alone in this, but I really don't want leaders asking my date's permission to dance with me. There are plenty of ways a couple who isn't circulating can make that obvious. Approaching them when they are sitting together and asking the date rather than the person you wish to dance with is unnecessary, IMO. I don't do it when I want to dance with a leader. Why should leaders do it when they want to dance with me?

    (But then, I also have NO room for jealous, insecure, possessive people in my life... if my date had a problem with me dancing with other guys, I wouldn't date him in the first place!)
  6. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    I agree with Zoopsia. I never like it when a guy asks me if he can dance with someone else. I don't think I have any right to decide that. When it does happen, I tell the guy he needs to ask her, not me.
  7. twnkltoz

    twnkltoz Well-Known Member

    If she's with a date but they don't always sit together or you see her dancing with others, it's probably find to ask her. If they are glued together all the time and she never dances with anyone else, it's probably not OK to ask her.
  8. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    It's basically just a way for guys to show props to each other (especially useful when you they don't know each other well).

    Another approach is to wait until the guy (her partner) is dancing with someone else, and then ask her to dance.
  9. tangobro

    tangobro Active Member

    I 2nd this. Asking the man if he minds if you ask the lady demonstrates respect for him. It is NOT asking him if she will dance with you, if it's OK with him you then ask her, she will then decide.

    This is where the cabeceo has an advantage, if the lady acknowledges the cabeceo she will stand & approach the dance floor as you approach her, so you don't have to interact with others that she may be seated with.

    p.s. - for those not familiar with American slang "show props" = show proper respect (that's what Aretha Franklin sang about R.E.S.P.E.C.T.)
  10. LadyLeader

    LadyLeader Active Member

    I agree with Zoopsia! Ask her and if he is reacting sort it out then. When people ask ME if they can dance with my regular partner, it indicates that they are somehow my property. I do not feel comfortable about that.

    If you feel you must ask, then your phrasing is the key I think and there is a difference between these two:

    May I have a dance with your partner?
    I hope I do not interrupt anything but I would appreciate a dance with Jane
    (sorry for clumsy examples but I think you can see the difference)
  11. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Yeah... that was sortof my point. If a couple is trying to avoid circulating, it's often rather obvious with only a small amount of observation. If there's a chance to ask the lady when he's not around, or say something to him when she's not around, then that already indicates that they are mingling with others and not glued at the hip.

    So seeking out that sort of opportunity (and either finding it or not) probably tells you whether she is free to dance with others. Of course, you could also just notice that she is already dancing with others, and that settles it.

    There's no need to put her on the spot by obtaining her partner's permission while she's sitting there wishing you would go away. (or obtaining hers while HE is wishing you would go away)

    Isn't it already complicated enough asking and accepting dances either verbally or through cabeceo? Why add a THIRD person whose signals you need to interpret to that mix? Most people have enough trouble reliably reading just one person at a time.
  12. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I'm sorry, but that's simply not how guys treat each other (except for the few who either don't understand or don't care about potentially causing a problem). If the guys know each other (and know it's OK), then they might do as you described.
  13. LadyLeader

    LadyLeader Active Member

    Ladies have a similar rule so I shall not put on extra atraction power, attention for someone elses boyfriend; you respect the exisitng relationships around you.

    My point was that even the follower needs respect here. My suggestion was to reframe the question.

    If this doesn't work what could be acceptable behaviour showing respect for leader's relationship to her AND followers right to distribute her dances independently?
  14. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    Then it's too late, I'm dead,or technical knock-out. This is precisely to avoid a reaction by the guy. The lady might take it wrong but as far as my health is concerned it is a much esser evil.
  15. LadyLeader

    LadyLeader Active Member

    .... Newbie could you please continue reading! How do you like the rest of my posting or the one above #453 ?
  16. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I guess the followers would need to ask the men to dance, to meet the criteria of her distributing her dances independently (some do, BTW).
  17. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I'm wondering how those of you who advocate asking the woman's partner would deal with the situation of the partner being unhappy that his date dances with others, but she wants to? Is your rule about showing respect to the other guy going to superceed her desire to dance with you if you asked her? Is it your place to "respect" him when she is trying to simply go about her business developing her tango, rather than be controlled by his jealousy?

    I understand that asking the man is sort of a guy code of respect, but what happens when he clearly doesn't want you to, and she jumps up and accepts the offer of a dance? Do you walk away from her because HE said no?

    It seems that asking the partner is really just a formality like asking "How are you" and expecting "Fine" rather than the truth. You don't REALLY expect him to say no? But if he does, does his wish for her to dance only with him takes priority over her wish to dance as she pleases?

    Has this scenario ever happened to any of you (where the girl accepts even though the guy is declining or obviously unhappy about it) Do you only ask the man when you are sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is her significant other and not just someone she might have ended up sitting with? Maybe she would like to get away from him! Is it only husbands? Boyfriends? Dates? If someone that you normally dance with shows up with a date one night, do you extend this "courtesy" to him, thus allowing him to decide that she won't be dancing with you?

    See, this is why some of us have a problem with this practice... you can say it's about respect for the other guy, but what it does in the long run is put the woman's fate in the hands of a man, rather than in her own hands. I didn't want to get into the whole sexist "property" thing, because my initial reaction was based on the fact that my partner would always say yes, and this happened to me primarily when someone I had been avoiding approached us because it was that guy's only chance to get near me. It was then awkward for me to turn the guy down after successfully steering clear of him all night.

    However, the opposite scenario is even more disturbing.. that you would not dance with someone if her partner/date didn't want her to dance with others... as though it is "respectful" for you to enable him to control her.

    If a man asked me to dance, and I was aware that his partner got upset if he danced with anyone other than her, I would still accept the invitation to dance. It's for them to sort out between themselves, not for me to help them resolve in their relationship. I'm there to dance, not play marital counselor. And I certainly don't owe other women my automatic loyalty (just because I'm also female) for behavior I disagree with.

    Do you guys think it's reasonable for a woman's date to control who she dances with? If not, why would you enable him to do so? By asking his permission, you are giving him the power to say no, and thus power over her.

    The whole thing only works if it really is just a formality, and the men always say yes. When they say no despite the woman's wishes, and you "respect" that, you are respecting a man's right to control women's behavior...

    Does the "guy code" demand that you stay loyal to other men even when they are behaving in a way that you don't condone?
  18. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I respect the relationships. That that doesn't mean I would not dance with someone. It's a dance... you're there to dance. It shouldn't violate the boundaries of a relationship to be dancing at a dance.

    Yeah... some women (and I'm one) have a gal code about trying to steal away some other girl's man. (and quite a few women have no reservations whatsoever about doing so) But dancing with him isn't that. If he wants to dance with me and I want to dance with him, we're dancing. If she's got a problem with it, they need to sort it out.

    If her problem is with ME specifically, I might try to address it. But I've never been in that situation.
  19. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Is bodily harm really such a possibility where you dance? The only time I've ever seen two men in a milonga nearly come to blows was over floorcraft (or total lack thereof)
  20. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    If you don't know them well, how do you know that the guy you are asking is her significant other and not just some guy that's been "babysitting" her that she'd love to get away from?

    (this is more of a general point than a question to YOU... I think you probably would have a clue... but not everyone reading this would realize that might be a possibility)

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