What are the 5 top reasons that make a man ask a woman to dance? Beauty comes first?

[pascal]

At that milonga I was sitting next to the teacher couple
I am not very active at that point.
I assume everybody can see me
Those men I usually dance with came too late- I was already on the way home.

Looks like you did everything wrong.
If you sit next to teachers, people will think you are a kind of guest teacher or something. Now if you prefer sitting near your teacher then take advantage of him and ask him if among the leaders here there is some his pupils whom you could walk to and ask for an invite.
If you're not active nothing much will happen, you have to show that you're available for an invite. And that's not only during cortina time.
No everybody cannot see you, it's dark, there are people between you and the leaders who sit on the other side, people in tango are old and the leaders don't come with their glasses because it ruins their image.
Sure if you come when your usual partners aren't there and you leave before they start coming then they won't invite you. Did you let them know that you were coming? Mailed them? Sms-ed them?

 

[twnkltoz]

My sympathies, Losty! I actually had a really good week. I don't know why, but I got lots of invitations every time I went out. I don't know if I've somehow turned a corner or just got lucky. I have been working on adjusting my attitude and expectations: I go to watch and socialize and dance with DH (so lucky I have a partner!), and if someone else invites me, it's a bonus. I've also decided that if I'm not getting enough invitations to just go ask the men I know won't be offended. Whatever the reason, I sure liked it! We'll see if the trend continues.

 

[Losty]

It was coincidence that the teachers sat next to me- I was earlier there and they took a seat afterwards, not the other way around.

That is true- I chose a seat without planning and analysing. That was not really wise, I will try to select a better seat next time. I was watching the dancing couples all the time, that's why I assumed it is obvious I would like to dance. It is better I assume fewer next time.

I have waited for a long time, and, I didn't know who is going to come later. It seems to me a bad idea to quiz my classmates whether they are coming at a milonga or not. Generally, I want to dance because a man finds my dancing nice, not because we made an appointment or we are both terrified of waiting the whole evening.

All suggestions are very helpful, I am very greatful for the time and energy all of you spend on my issue. Thank you!

 

[twnkltoz]

Seat choice is a good point. One night at a swing dance, DH and I chose a table by the floor, with a bench/booth type seat along the wall and chairs on the floor side of the table. I sat on the bench where I could watch the floor. A friend was there at the next table who usually dances with me, and he didn't ask me all night. By the time I leaned over and asked him, he had changed his shoes and was done. He said, "Oh, I would have asked you to dance, but I thought maybe you were just relaxing tonight." <pulling hair out>

 

[Zoopsia59]

It seems to me a bad idea to quiz my classmates whether they are coming at a milonga or not. Generally, I want to dance because a man finds my dancing nice, not because we made an appointment or we are both terrified of waiting the whole evening.

Many of the people I know communicate prior to events to see who's going. Those people that you are reluctant to arrange in advance with may be already doing that with each other.

I totally understand what you are saying about wanting a guy to ask you rather than feel obligated by a prior agreement, but it's sorta reminscent of saying "I don't want to have to tell my boyfriend what to get me for my birthday.. if he loved me, he'd know what I like". Yes, it would be great if other people picked up on our wants without express words, and it would be great if the guys at a milonga enjoyed our dance together so much that they sought us out. But that's not always the way it works.

I really don't know why some nights we are the Belle of the Ball and other nights we have a big LOSER sign over our heads. It's one of the mysteries of tango. I was recently at an event where I was ignored during the time I was being totally approachable, and sought out in a corner while deeply engaged in conversation with a galpal. Sometimes I think it's all just a roll of the dice.

I would suggest trying to coordinate plans with a few people. It doesn't have to mean a promise to dance... it could just mean you have people there to socialize with. That will put you more at ease, and as a result, you'll seem more approachable (or have someone to talk to in a corner if that's what works. ). It will also make you look a little more like "part of the scene" to someone who doesn't know you. I've had someone ask me to dance just because he saw me talking to so many other people at the milonga, he figured I must be experienced because I knew everyone.

I've also had evenings where I sat all night and/or only danced with a few total beginner newbies while being totally ignored by the people I usually dance with. If there are a lot more leaders than followers, you're going to sit out more until you become one of the top advanced followers. (and I've been to event where even they sit out quite a bit)

Chalk it up to a bad night and try to make friends with the people you know from class (even the other women) so you have peeps of your own when you go dancing.

 

[Captain Jep]

It was coincidence that the teachers sat next to me- I was earlier there and they took a seat afterwards, not the other way around.

That is true- I chose a seat without planning and analysing. That was not really wise, I will try to select a better seat next time. I was watching the dancing couples all the time, that's why I assumed it is obvious I would like to dance. It is better I assume fewer next time.

I have waited for a long time, and, I didn't know who is going to come later. It seems to me a bad idea to quiz my classmates whether they are coming at a milonga or not. Generally, I want to dance because a man finds my dancing nice, not because we made an appointment or we are both terrified of waiting the whole evening.

All suggestions are very helpful, I am very greatful for the time and energy all of you spend on my issue. Thank you!

Well , apart from the mistake of sitting next to the teachers , I think you made the mistake of staring at the dancing couples. If I had been sitting out, I would simply have assumed you were waiting to dance with someone.

I have never really understood this idea. The men who are dancing are less likely to ask you than the ones sitting out. They have
a) been dancing with someone and may be tired and
b) are in my view more likely to ask someone who has also been dancing on the floor rather than someone sitting down.

If someone really wants to dance, they will look around them. Or they will get up and go towards the watercooler/the kitchen/whereever people are hanging out. In either case, they are looking to see who else is looking in their direction.

The other thing is that most men are honourable. If you agree with someone to dance later in the evening, they will make the effort to remember and dance with you. It's not always possible. But it's better than waiting for an immediate dance all evening.

 

[Madahlia]

Losty, many sympathies for your terrible evening - most followers get this kind of experience from time to time and it is very demoralising. But it is not always like that, and really, there is no choice except to pick yourself, dust yourself down, and hope it is better next time. And it probably will be.

One issue, and as the evening wore on, probably the deciding one, was that if the leaders had not seen you dance (assuming they did not know you) they were taking a 'risk' in asking you

Often, if a lady is to dance much at all, she has to take the "risk" of dancing with unproven partners, or partners which she knows are sub-optimal from her point of view - and make the best of it with a smile. And many hidden gems are to be discovered by dancing with unknown people, so why should someone be closed-minded in this respect?

Arguably, the consequences of taking this "risk" are worse for a follower because if she is seen being dragged and tripped up around the floor with a poor leader she may then be avoided by other leaders. So you are judged if you do and judged if you don't.

Would it not occur to any leader present in the room that a follower who had been sat down all evening, gazing longingly at the dancers, might really appreciate the offer of a dance (by whatever means) and be kind and generous enough to make it? No. Apparently we have the complacent and self-centred calculation of "risk" to their personal vanity.

There now, I was planning not to get cross about this all over again. Losty, you are definitely not alone.

 

[pascal]

If there are a lot more leaders than followers, you're going to sit out more

Not sure I understand this.

 

[dchester]

Not sure I understand this.

It's called a gender imbalance. Example, if at a milonga there are 40 followers and only 20 leaders, half of the followers will be sitting at any given time (assuming that the followers don't also lead).


BTW, for the followers, I did some quick math (probability), and it's made me realize how bad it can be for you when there is a significant gender imbalance.

If we consider the hypothetical scenario that random chance is how the followers are picked for each tanda (and the gender imbalance is a 2 - 1 ratio), then it's very possible (if not likely) that it would take 6 tandas for each follower to have danced at least once (if you're not a math geek, just bare with me on this). In this same scenario, some other follower would likely have danced every tanda, and other followers would have danced varying numbers of tandas.

Now we know that the follower selection is not random, and also, most leaders will not dance every tanda, so when the gender imbalance is large, it's easy to see how someone could sit out the whole night (if they don't do anything to change the odds).

My conclusion, leaders need to do more to ask different people to dance.

 

[Madahlia]

BTW, for the followers, I did some quick math (probability), and it's made me realize how bad it can be for you when there is a significant gender imbalance.

If we consider the hypothetical scenario that random chance is how the followers are picked for each tanda (and the gender imbalance is a 2 - 1 ratio), then it's very possible (if not likely) that it would take 6 tandas for each follower to have danced at least once (if you're not a math geek, just bare with me on this). In this same scenario, some other follower would likely have danced every tanda, and other followers would have danced varying numbers of tandas.

Now we know that the follower selection is not random, and also, most leaders will not dance every tanda, so when the gender imbalance is large, it's easy to see how someone could sit out the whole night (if they don't do anything to change the odds).

My conclusion, leaders need to do more to ask different people to dance.

Thank you, dchester, again. It does go some way to re-establish my faith in the common sense, generosity and general humanity of leaders.

 

[ant]

Not sure I understand this.

Originally Posted by dchester It's called a gender imbalance. Example, if at a milonga there are 40 followers and only 20 leaders, half of the followers will be sitting at any given time (assuming that the followers don't also lead).

DC your way round I understand but this was what was posted to who I believe is a follower.

If there are a lot more leaders than followers, you're going to sit out more until you become one of the top advanced followers. (and I've been to event where even they sit out quite a bit)

It was probabally just a typo but if that was what was meant it would be of interest to me at least as to why.

 

[dchester]

It was probabally just a typo but if that was what was meant it would be of interest to me at least as to why.

If the question is, why are there more women than men, it has to do with the culture. Here (in the US), most boys play sports, rather than go into dance, because it's viewed (by their peers) as a more feminine activity. So if you're a boy and you don't want to get teased or beat up, you stay away from dance and do sports.

However, lots of girls take up dance when growing up. This carries over into adulthood, as there are lots more women who have a dance background, and would be likely to take up something like tango.

Also (at least around here), it take considerably longer for a leader to reach minimal competency, compared to what it takes for a follower to be "milonga ready". Thus lots of potential leaders drop out.

 

[gyb]

How frequently beginner and advanced followers get asked out may also depend on the music played that night.

I don't know how many other leaders behave this way, but for me the following is roughly true. I only ask out partners after the tanda begins and I already have some sense of how much I'm going to enjoy the music. If the music is IMO undanceable in my style (most of alternative and nuevo) or I really don't like it then I take a break. If the music is danceable but I don't care for it too much then I do community service and dance with beginners and with other non-favorite partners who got stuck in a not very advanced level but to whom I'm nevertheless still very much indebted for their kindness and patience during the time when I made my first tango steps. The other time when I dance with these people is the beginning of the milonga; with the exception of life partner I don't dance with anyone more than three tandas a night (even three is very rare) and I don't want to warm up with favorite partners / I don't want them to warm up with me and loose the chance to dance to a better tanda. And so finally when the music is both danceable and inspiring I seek out the better followers and in particular those with whom I have better connection and who I know know the music well and enjoy it. This maximizes the chance of tango-trance happening for me.

The upshot is: if the DJ is bad I end up dancing with more beginners and maybe not dancing at all with some favorite partners, but if the DJ is great I might not dance with beginners at all. These are of course only rough guidelines and there are many exceptions, but there is a definite trend..

Of course I try to be very careful not to let my dance-partners know about this, and especially to not let the beginners know that I dance with them mainly under these conditions. First, the overwhelming majority of beginner followers have no idea and taste wrt the music they dance to and so they wouldn't be able to identify the conditions. My relative lack of inspiration could show up of course (I do try to be careful to hide it and at this point I'm a good dancer enough to be entertaining for beginners even if I myself don't like the music that much), but they could also blame that on them being beginners (which is true in a sense) which could be a further motivation for them to make progress. I figure by the time beginners would figure this out they 1. either became more advanced and so the rule doesn't apply to them anymore, 2. or got stuck for a longer time in a post-beginner but still uncomfortable level, in which case I stop regularly dancing with them (no more chance to help me with my beginning tango steps, sorry), 3. or left the community.

 

[Dave Bailey]

BTW, for the followers, I did some quick math (probability), and it's made me realize how bad it can be for you when there is a significant gender imbalance.

It doesn't even have to be "significant" - even 10% will cause a massive problem.

Say you have an event with 100 people, and you have 55 women and 45 men. In other words, only 10% imbalance. That will mean that - at best - 10 women are always sitting out, all the time.

But it gets worse. Imagine that 10 men and 10 women want to sit out a tanda. Then you have 35 men and 45 women - the relative ratio has gone up again. And say 10 men want to dance with only one partner - 25 / 35... and so on.

And for a 20% imbalance, it's horrible. Imagine a 40/60 split, so you have at least a full third of the women sitting it out, all the time - and more likely, half of them - whether they want to or not.

A relatively-small imbalance can have very large effects.

 

[LoveTango]

My conclusion, leaders need to do more to ask different people to dance.

I noticed that, at my favorite milonga, lots of leaders are already doing that. I also think this depends on the milonga culture.

A DJ of a milonga once posted a message on a dance forum saying that please introduce yourself to me when you come to my milonga the first time. I did just that-introduced myself on my first visit. That night she made arrangement for a teacher and one of her friends to invite me. I thought that was nice, felt welcomed.

Another time, the lady teacher who organizes a milonga danced with me for half a tanda. Been seeing on the dance floor, I got lots of invitations afterwards. I think the effect extends to now.

I wonder if it is to the interest of the milonga organizor to pay attention to engage all to dance. I understand that this could be tricky, because if the organizer overdo it, they might make more beginners want to come and the advanced leaders shy away for fear of the responsibility to community service.