When do you stop being a beginner?

Well, you're the one who said they were advanced.

They certainly would see themselves as "advanced". I might have other words for it, though (they certainly 'advanced' to somewhere in their journey in tango, but not necessarily where I want to go); I should have used apologetic quoting.

And yes, I don't dance very often with them. From time to time, just to convince myself I wasn't having a bad dream. I bet they don't like to dance with me either, because I dance pretty badly when I dance with them; it takes two to tango, even for each individual.
 
Based on that criterion, I will never stop being a beginner, since I am ridiculously bad at recognizing music and attaching names, and matching things to composers is even worse.

You could use another criterion: you stop being a beginner when you develop preferences to dancing a certain way (or with certain leaders with a certain style) on a certain type of music.

Conversely, you're a beginner if your dance would look exactly the same if you were dancing with a broomstick on wheels (robotic for followers; an iBroom? ;) ) accompanied merely by the proverbial fat Nubian celeusta beating the drums for Roman republic navy rowers on a galley.
 
As the first...eh. I want to dance different ways to different music, and with different leaders. Some days, I want alternative and close...other days alternative and big and open...other days, shared weight to traditional music. It's just a mood thing...no way to form preferences. :-)

As for the second...definitely not! Although I find it hard to really add my own personality and dance differently when I don't get much personality from the guy.
 
As the first...eh. I want to dance different ways to different music, and with different leaders. Some days, I want alternative and close...other days alternative and big and open...other days, shared weight to traditional music. It's just a mood thing...no way to form preferences. :-)
I didn't say fixed preferences -- you can (and actually confess to having) preferences that are mood-dependent. There you go, you're not a beginner.

As for the second...definitely not! Although I find it hard to really add my own personality and dance differently when I don't get much personality from the guy.
And the same actually holds for leaders (as some of my earlier posts suggest).

Some followers are obsessed with "not making mistakes".

They then develop into "advanced" followers obsessed with "looking good", sometimes at the expense of the connection to the music and the partners (if it's not at the expense of the connection to the music and the leader, I consider their obsessive compulsive disorder harmless --at least to me ;) ).

Some of these will then only dance with leaders they know and music they know, to be sure to only do steps they know in a rhythm they know with a step length they know, etc. Because it's "safe" and they will be in control and Look Perfect. Some of them do Look Good, too. As it's someone else dancing with them when you can watch them, they're often pretty to watch (they usually have very good mastery of adornos although there often is something subtly amiss with the timing of their boleos, as if they weren't being led properly even when they are).

"No guts, no glory" is more my motto. And 'guts' is not the temerity to launch yourself in a complicated sequence you've learned at the El Grande Meastro workshop #23 with a follower you haven't even started to connect to properly, it's the guts to let the music and the flow on the dancefloor dare you to take a step into uncharted territory, just because you can and circumstances urge you to.

And for followers, the guts to trust, the guts to actually follow without worrying how you'll look (but worrying how you feel) and the guts to try to explore the freedom the connection with your partner gives you, what feedback you can give and what spice you can add to the dance.
 
ah, you stop being a beginner when you fizzle into simultaneous whassisname at the cabaceo and the need to dance is sated....before you leave your chair...;)
 
One time, while I was at a milonga that was part of a visiting teacher's workshop weekend, one lady I was dancing with thanked me profusely for coming over, teaching and being very generous with my dancing. I had to assure her repeatedly that I was not, in fact, that visiting teacher. Gotta admit, it was a pretty sweet ego massage :)
 
One time, while I was at a milonga that was part of a visiting teacher's workshop weekend, one lady I was dancing with thanked me profusely for coming over, teaching and being very generous with my dancing. I had to assure her repeatedly that I was not, in fact, that visiting teacher. Gotta admit, it was a pretty sweet ego massage :)

reminds me of a salsera who in lesson would whisper to each partner. "you're the only one who knows how to do this properly"

she got plenty of dances afterwards :D
 
They certainly would see themselves as "advanced". I might have other words for it, though (they certainly 'advanced' to somewhere in their journey in tango, but not necessarily where I want to go); I should have used apologetic quoting.

And yes, I don't dance very often with them. From time to time, just to convince myself I wasn't having a bad dream. I bet they don't like to dance with me either, because I dance pretty badly when I dance with them; it takes two to tango, even for each individual.

That's what I call an intermediate dancer. They can move, they know stuff, but they're sort of missing the whole point.
 
You could use another criterion: you stop being a beginner when you develop preferences to dancing a certain way (or with certain leaders with a certain style) on a certain type of music.

Conversely, you're a beginner if your dance would look exactly the same if you were dancing with a broomstick on wheels (robotic for followers; an iBroom? ;) ) accompanied merely by the proverbial fat Nubian celeusta beating the drums for Roman republic navy rowers on a galley.

I found, several months into my Tango journey, that my taste in leaders started shifting. The guy who is fun because he does a lot of stuff isn't quite so desirable as the man who does less stuff but has a wonderful connection.
 
desirable as the man who does less stuff but has a wonderful connection.

a lady was saying something had changed about my dance last night after we had a very nice dance, she said it was chest posture. I think her anaylsis was just way off the mark. She felt "connection" because for once, she was listening to me and the music. I wasnt doing anything different. It was just another nice dance for me.

Connection, sschmection..:rolleyes:
 
That's what I call and advanced dancer.

I'm not sure I'd go quite that far. :) Let's go for actively evolving dancer...I still make a lot of flubs and there are too many holes in my fundamentals for my taste. I do like to think I'm on the right track, though.
 
To be honest, I've never really worried about it, (other than maybe when some class says you need to be a some level, to sign up for it). I find the categories somewhat arbitrary. Around these parts, there might be up to 5 categories for classes: Beginner, Advanced Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, Teacher Level. I think it would be more practical for classes to list what the prerequisite skills you need to have, rather than just some nebulous category.

There have been "beginners" who I've enjoyed dancing with, and others I did not enjoy too much. The same is true for "advanced" dancers, and even teachers. I suppose the same goes for me with others, as some people seem to like dancing with me, and some don't.

I will say that if I dance with a teacher and don't enjoy the dance, I won't take classes from her (as I assume our styles are incompatible). People who I enjoy dancing with, are who I occasionally will solicit feedback from, as those are the ones who I'd like to get better for (and in the way they deem important).
 
...I will say that if I dance with a teacher and don't enjoy the dance, I won't take classes from her (as I assume our styles are incompatible)...

One of my most influential teachers never cared for the way I dance. I took from her what seemed beneficial for me and ignored many of her other ideas. Eventually I did quit taking lessons from her, but that's true for any teacher.
 
One of my most influential teachers never cared for the way I dance. I took from her what seemed beneficial for me and ignored many of her other ideas. Eventually I did quit taking lessons from her, but that's true for any teacher.
Did you like dancing with her? If so, then it makes perfect sense to learn what to change so she would like dancing with you better.
 

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