2007 Brown Competition -- Feedback

[NielsenE]

For everyone who competed at Brown this past weekend, congratulations.

Here's some feedback, as seen by the scrutineer.

1. This was probably the best run Brown I've seen, and one of better competitions I've seen recently. I was very happy with how the first few rounds of newcomer were handled I felt the MCs and CoJ did a good job explaining things and getting people organized, without treating people like idiots. This is what I would have liked to have seen at UConn earlier this semester. I was very glad to see fun-dances and team match. I was very happy that the fun-dances weren't too crazy -- ie not "Reverse Role and variable tempo, required to be offtime, with your tongue sticking out, and changing dances all in one round"

2. I still hope they can find a better venue since I suspect most of the major complaints will be about the venue -- no real warm up area, not enough seating, extremely crowded on deck area, disgusting bathrooms, no real temperature control. I still have issues with the choice of where things are placed in the venue as well. The judges tables work much better on the other side of the stage to avoid the "eddy" problem of trapped couples by the extended stage. The on deck area really shouldn't dump into the beginning of a long wall as couples take two steps on and stop in standard/smooth.


3. I would have liked for the open couples to be introduced between their dances. Several competitors complained to me about insufficient time to take their places for the next dance in most of the multi-dance events.

4. I would have liked to have seen invigilating in the Latin style. I saw a ton of Full-Bronze being danced in the Pre-Bronze only newcomer (mainly alemannas being in violating) and I saw a fair bit of "open" in Silver (actually it was Silver Rhythm being used in Latin). Gold actually looked legit for once. I didn't notice any other major consistent problems in the other styles aside from the warning or two that I knew was given out.

5. For the competitors.... what was up with being undressed before your recalls....

 

[Ithink]

Where are the results being posted?

 

[tunape]

5. For the competitors.... what was up with being undressed before your recalls....

;p

For the record, they ran silver standard finals, and I was anticipating gold finals first, so I had to attend to a blister. I was in the middle of wrapping my blister when they called us to the floor(the superglue didn't fully dry, and later I was stuck to my bandaid and sock!) The MC did not call that open standard finals were on deck! On top of that, they only allowed 10 minutes between rounds(2:11pm was when the last dance ended, and 2:20pm was the next dance as recorded by the timestamp on my videocamera).

I can say this is the first time I wasn't dressed for my event because we were rushed.

 

[tunape]

I've heard complaints about judging bias where judges were clearly marking only their couple. although this is the usual complaint, people felt the effects were stronger because there were fewer judges(esp. in open latin, where there were only 5). Although the chairman of the judges tried to balance the panel, there were possibly too few judges.

 

[and123]

Where are the results being posted?

http://www.ballroomregistrar.com/results/Brown07/

That was fast

 

[NielsenE]

Results were up around midnight, but I forgot to add a link, until about 2 hours ago...

And tunape, I was more talking about the newcomer couple in Standard or smooth that came out with shirt unbuttoned and untucked, and untied tie for a recall... I seem to remember his partner's dress wasn't really on completely either.... made everyone wonder what they were doing between rounds...

 

[Chris_Broderick]

That made me laugh, it was one of the funnier things I've seen at a competition.

I thought the comp was very well run, a blessing after HBC a few weeks ago. As Eric said, the venue needs some work. The bathrooms weren't up to par, it was hotter than hell in the ballroom, the same issues as years past at Brown.

I did feel a little rushed, especially in the first round of Silver Standard. I was that guy who went out there without a number the first round (at least Istvan tapped me while dancing to ask what it was, and I still placed, too..). They called lineup while I was still in the bathroom getting dressed and I was going on the floor while tying my tie.

Aside from the standard feeling rushed I thought the day ran very well. It may have been my imagination, but it did seem there was a little judge bias going on, but who knows. I enjoyed myself and so did the majority of my teammates (especially newcomers) who didn't have as good of a time at HBC.

 

[tunape]

the newcomer couple in Standard or smooth that came out with shirt unbuttoned and untucked, and untied tie for a recall... I seem to remember his partner's dress wasn't really on completely either.... made everyone wonder what they were doing between rounds...

haha! lol! I must have missed that one! standard/smooth _IS_ sexy!

 

[ChenLing]

Eric, do you think there is a way to statistically detect judging bias? Between us I think we have the results of most collegiate comps on the east coast for the past 5 years.

Is there a way to detect judging bias, versus an instructor teaching what they consider most important, and then judging the same way? Especially for something like open Latin, where I feel there is a lot more room for interpretation (speed vs rhythmic body movement)?

 

[fenixx]

Looking through syllabus, especially through the recalls, it is clear that some of the judges were promoting their couples. I found one egregious example in gold latin where two couples received no recalls but from their coach. I think more judges were needed on the floor to cancel out such a bias.

 

[JohnLL]

I just wanted to say congrats to everyone who competed yesterday and to say well done to the comp organizers on having a well-run competition!
I'm not going to rehash comments on the venue except to say that I agree that many of the issues were the same as last year and are a reflection on the venue itself not on the team organizers (definitely not the easiest thing to find an ideal venue for that many people!). I definitely think the competition has outgrown Moseley's however, and should look into other venues.
Don't know how I missed the half-dressed (or undressed) couple but I would've liked to have seen that and had a good laugh.
Again, well done to all who were there and kudos to Eric on being so efficient with getting the results up!

 

[NielsenE]

I suspect its close to impossible to detect "certifiable" judging bias -- versus just teaching/marking what they like. I know there's some very suspicious markings from time to time -- and at brown their were multiple judges who people often feel are biased -- however all of them do tend to have rather unique viewpoints that will often lead to their couples being disliked by other judges during the"growth" years -- (2-5 depending on the couple).

If you can find pairs of judges who tend to mark similarly when non of "their" couples are involved -- ie they appear to value the same qualities -- you might be able to show bias when they they do have couples on the floor, but even still its going to be very "soft proof".

I was very surprised that they didn't use 7 judges in the semis and finals of Latin, like they did in all the other styles.

 

[biggestbox]

More judges are definitely a must, but in my opinion not because of bias. Basically judges have maybe 2-3 seconds to looks at you (especially in overcrowded collegiate comps). So their judgment can't be fully objective. Also if a judges knows you, they know exactly how you dance, so chances are, they will mark you based on the level they have in their mind and not what is on the day.

 

[tunape]

Eric, do you think there is a way to statistically detect judging bias? Between us I think we have the results of most collegiate comps on the east coast for the past 5 years.

Is there a way to detect judging bias, versus an instructor teaching what they consider most important, and then judging the same way? Especially for something like open Latin, where I feel there is a lot more room for interpretation (speed vs rhythmic body movement)?

you can do regressions against judge's affiliations with the couple's affiliation, and/or geographical location. The trouble is that there are usually not enough data points to make it statistically significant. When there are more judges(30+?), it is easier to see the variances in judging, and do an analyst of variance to possibly tie it to affiliation/geography. But you'd still need to control for accreditation(IDSF, NDCA, etc...) and experience. The behaviorial models are difficult in this scenario. I know that there are some stats wiz in the forum who can probably shine more light onto this topic in better than I.

EDIT: oh, and if someone has a good idea on this, I'd love to collaborate on a paper.

 

[JohnLL]

Anyone know when and where pictures might be posted from the comp? I'm looking for rhythm specifically. Thanks!