2024 Competition Opportunities

[Greybeard]

So, if I get on the comp floor with the dancer-in-question in a Silver event, and start “my” Silver routine, it probably contains Silver figures that she has not yet learned. So, if I use any of those, or use something unfamiliar to her for floorcraft purposes….well, it might be quite frustrating. First, not only would I have to, on the fly, limit myself to Bronze/Silver figures, but I’d also have to try to remember which of those Bronze/Silver figures she might know. If she were dancing with one of her collegiate team members, well, they all pretty much have learned the same Syllabus figures, so she would “know” whatever figure that collegiate team member might lead. Not so much with me.

I think you probably know all the silver figures she does, and just need to limit yourself to the ones she knows. You can find her routine and practice it while working on your technique in your solo practices.

Traffic would be the bigger issue, but possibly hesitations and extra boxes/ left and right turns could get you out of trouble.

 

[Cal]

You are overthinking it. Most people have low expectations of a TBA matchup.

I danced with Fiesta after meeting him for the first time at a USA dance comp, our goal was just to have fun and have more time on the dance floor.

If your goal is anything then those, then don’t do it.

Joy, I think you just hit the nail on the head. Do it if makes me happy. And, you're absolutely right - happiness would not be my goal (might be a nice by-product if it happened, but not my goal).

Sooooo.... given that I have now identified myself as the dancer-equivalent of the BBC's "Doc Martin" (Happiness is overrated) that's most likely why my Pros aren't enthusiastic about encouraging me to do it.

 

[raindance]

Joy, I think you just hit the nail on the head. Do it if makes me happy. And, you're absolutely right - happiness would not be my goal (might be a nice by-product if it happened, but not my goal).

Sooooo.... given that I have now identified myself as the dancer-equivalent of the BBC's "Doc Martin" (Happiness is overrated) that's most likely why my Pros aren't enthusiastic about encouraging me to do it.

Love the Doc Martin analogy. Funny show.

Joy says - do it if it makes you happy - username checks out!!!

raindance (a much less perky username) says do it if you think it will be worthwhile - happiness is not the only dance goal that is worth pursuing, though hopefully it would be somewhere on the enjoyable scale (as opposed to a miserable experience). There are other types of satisfaction to be gained from pursuing various dance goals (get more comfortable navigating in traffic, get experience on the collegiate circuit and see if it's for me, etc, etc).

I'd also say after all this back and forth, you sound lukewarm about this at best. So back burner it for now and you can always try a collegiate TBA thing another time if you want.

 

[standingspin]

I’m striking off most of the NDCA comps that “hide” their cost sheet from me, the actual costumer.

it's not all that difficult to get a hold of the info. it's not like they're intentionally obfuscating the sheets, but they are definitely saving people the trouble of seeing pricing that ultimately doesn't apply to them.

 

[Joe]

Sooooo.... given that I have now identified myself as the dancer-equivalent of the BBC's "Doc Martin" (Happiness is overrated) that's most likely why my Pros aren't enthusiastic about encouraging me to do it.

Do you do Pro/Am?

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

Two pro/am couples from my studio are registered to compete at Nashville Starz this month, but the comp hotel doesn’t have any rooms available, so they might not be going after all.

Update: they did go! Idk if they stayed at the comp hotel (and didn't ask), but when I was looking up their results, I found some interesting (to some of us) data about heat sizes for the various styles & levels.

Note: this isn't ALL the comp data, of course - it's just the events & levels that my studio-mates competed in (and some of these events are the same age groups & levels as I would be competing in this year, so naturally I was interested).

Rhythm Singles

age group	open or closed	level	# of couples in event
L-B1	open	Full Silver	3
L-B1	closed	Full Silver	7
L-B1	open	Int. Silver	4
L-B1	closed	Int. Silver	6
L-B2	closed	Int. Silver	4
L-B	closed	Pre Silver	3
L-B2	closed	Full Silver	4

Rhythm Multis
L-C Closed Silver Championship (C/R/Sw/M) - 7 couples
L-C Open Silver Championship (C/R/Sw/M) - 5 couples
L-C Closed Silver Scholarship (C/R/Sw/M) - 12 couples (semifinal)
L-C1 Closed Silver Championship (C/R/Sw/M) - 5 couples



Smooth Singles

age group	open or closed	level	# of couples in event
L-B1	open	Full Silver	4
L-B1	closed	Full Silver	10 (semifinal)
L-B1	open	Int. Silver	4
L-B1	closed	Int. Silver	6
L-B2	closed	Int. Silver	6
L-B2	closed	Pre Silver	5
L-B2	closed	Full Silver	7

Smooth Multis
L-C Closed Silver Championship - 10 couples (semifinal)
L-C Open Silver Championship - 7 couples
L-C1 Closed Silver Championship - 13 couples (semifinal)

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

it's not all that difficult to get a hold of the info. it's not like they're intentionally obfuscating the sheets, but they are definitely saving people the trouble of seeing pricing that ultimately doesn't apply to them.

Umm...they password-protect the price sheets, which is clearly intentional. And "obfuscate" means to confuse or bewilder or perplex, so I am guessing you meant "hiding" rather than "obfuscating" (although to be fair, some of the wording on those password-protected sheets is definitely obfuscation in my view).

Anyway, yes, of course they are intentionally hiding that info. The registration pages of, for example, The Heritage Classic and Nashville Starz dance comps both say, "The selected files are available to professional competitors. To obtain access, please select one of the options below to verify your professional status." The options to select from are "sign in with NDCA"; "sign in with CompRegister"; and "call organizer to obtain code." All 3 of those options would show the organizer that I am NOT a pro, but an Am, and they would almost certainly tell me to contact my studio for the details rather than give me the password. Similarly, I just checked a few other random comps, and found that the websites for Emerald Ball, American Star Ball, and Florida Star Ball all require a password to get access to the Price List, and if you click "request password," it takes you to a page to enter your full name, email address, affiliated studio (if applicable), and NDCA #. Exact same setup.

Now...whether they are deliberately hiding the price info "to save us the trouble of seeing pricing that ultimately doesn't apply to us," or for any of several other (more likely and all perfectly legitimate) reasons, I couldn't say.

 

[lucia_l]

Now...whether they are deliberately hiding the price info "to save us the trouble of seeing pricing that ultimately doesn't apply to us," or for any of several other (more likely and all perfectly legitimate) reasons, I couldn't say.

It could potentially be confusing to people entering their first few competitions since it's not what we pay. But I tend to think many studios really really prefer students not be entirely aware of how pricing is calculated and want to just be given a final number.

My pros are transparent. And I have two, so if one wasn't the other one would be. (Well, theoretically, they could get together and collude. But I don't think they would bother.)

 

[Reach]

But I tend to think many studios really really prefer students not be entirely aware of how pricing is calculated and want to just be given a final number.

My pros are transparent.

My Main Pro, who is my Main/Comp Studio owner is also transparent, and breaks the costs down, with me, and some others. Some students just want the final cost.

Some comp registration forms, such as NYDF and Manhattan list their heat prices on the forms. Some comps list package prices, without needing a password. Wish this was the norm, and not the exception.

 

[Tracy]

You might be shocked at how many people get upset at the fact that dance teachers/studios make money. The protected information just keeps the control in the hands of the professionals to choose what info they share with their clients. You don't go to the store and see the wholesale price of the item next to the retail.

 

[Cal]

Just an FYI: every State has a set of consumer protection laws – some sets are more sprawling and hard to wade through than others. But for those inclined to search, your State’s laws probably have something in them about the way in which service providers are required to disclose prices/costs to their customers for services they provide. My State happens to have compiled all of its requirements for dance-related service providers into a separate Dance Studio Act. (Some other States also have specific dance studio laws.)

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

many studios really really prefer students not be entirely aware of how pricing is calculated

You might be shocked at how many people get upset at the fact that dance teachers/studios make money.

That is bizarre. Of course they need to make money, and lord knows they work very hard to earn it.

 

[Tracy]

That is bizarre. Of course they need to make money, and lord knows they work very hard to earn it.

I just got off a FB page of dance moms (I own a kids ballet/tap/jazz studio) with a mom stating that she just uncovered the fact that her dance studio is upcharging for competitions and costumes. She was shocked and thought it was unethical after all the money she pays them for lessons. Some people were agreeing with her and others were defending the studio. Well, Lady, you got your lessons. Now pay for the other stuff.

 

[lucia_l]

I just got off a FB page of dance moms (I own a kids ballet/tap/jazz studio) with a mom stating that she just uncovered the fact that her dance studio is upcharging for competitions and costumes.

Would she be "shocked" that stores buy wholesale and sell retail? Are studio personnel going to the competition? And I know long ago when I had a kitchen remodel, the remodelers told us they bought some components wholesale but charged us retail. We could go out and buy it retail and cut them out.... But that was actually less convenient for us since we would then take delivery, store blah, blah...

Different studios do charge things different ways. I mean, they could give the families a catalog, tell them which costume to buy and the parents could buy the costume from the catalog. The catalog will probably charge parents retail so the parents would probably pay the same amount. And some parents would screw up and buy the wrong costume. But parents wouldn't be appalled the studio "made" some money adding extra onto the wholesale price.

Hopefully, other parents set that parent straight.

 

[Cal]

Yes, the Parent/Customer should be expected to pay for lessons and the “other stuff.” Yes, the Studio/Teacher and Comp Organizer are entitled to make money.

I don’t fully understand how giving pricing information to the Parent/Customer is equated with telling a Studio/Teacher or Comp Organizer that they aren’t entitled to make a profit. Set prices that make you a profit - that's fine, that's reasonable.

But...consumer's perspective here:
I’m not sure we know enough about how the fees were presented to the Parent/Customer, and at what stage the sticker shock came. Was the Parent/Customer given a sheet of paper/invoice that said (for example):

(i) “All Inclusive Cost” $1,000, or

(ii) “Lessons and other stuff” $1,000, or

(iii) Lessons - 10 @ $U each = $V, plus Competition Entry Fee = $W, plus Studio/Teacher Fee to attend Competition= $X, plus Studio/Teacher travel/hotel costs $Y, plus Costume Purchase $Z, for a Total Cost of $1,000

If the Parent/Customer was given only the information in (i) or (ii) and asked for more details about what was included in “all inclusive” or what “other stuff” meant, did the Studio Owner give them the details in (iii)? It just seems to me that if the Parent/Customer knows the component details of (iii) upfront, then, even if they are “shocked” by the cost, they can make some informed choices. Maybe they would enroll their child in fewer lessons, or maybe they would ask about costume rental rather than purchase, or maybe they would not sign up for as many competitions or would ask about less expensive competitions, or maybe they would change to a different Studio/Teacher that charged less…..shouldn’t those be components that the Parent/Customer is entitled to explore? In my mind, that's a reasonable level of detail for the Parent/Customer to ask for. To ask for that information and to be told that the Parent/Customer is not entitled to it – well…..makes me suspicious.

And, no, just because the Parent/Customer might ask for the details in (iii) above, that does not mean they are entitled to, or asking for, details about how much the Comp Organizer is paying its judges, or how much the special effects lighting costs at the Comp, or how much it costs to rent the room, or the calculation that is being used by the Comp Organizer or Studio/Teacher to make a profit margin.….In my mind, information as to that level of detail is not a reasonable request.

Just my two cents.