A beginner's Blizzard of Questions

B

BlueSkies

New Member
A big hello to all here in the TA forum, let me start by saying I've enjoyed lurking for a little while and think you're all wonderful. (+3 Brownie points)

I'm a newborn TA leader, and I don't mean in the modest "I've danced for 10 years and still consider myself a beginner" sense! Nope, I'm a for-real beginner about to start his first TA lessons, a refugee from Salsa with an eye and an ear for something new. I have a strong suspicion I'm about to discover I don't know how to walk but we'll sweep that under the carpet for now...:)

I've picked up some handy information from your threads here, though I tend to find after the first few messages there are things that assume a fundamental level of knowledge I don't yet have... people will say things like "concentrate on solid basics", or use vocabulary that I don't know, romantic latin terms like "cabeceo", suggesting secrets of the tango world.

One of my magnificent salsa teachers demonstrated to me that if you know the typical things that beginners do that make them look like beginners and you eliminate these immediately, you can take a massive step forward. (I have in mind here such universals as not looking at one's feet, as well as more salsa-specific things).

My cunning plan is to rapidly graduate towards conscious incompetence and good habits by asking you all-

What are the basics of step, of style, or musicality and musical interpretation?

What are the important conventions?

What words will it help me to know from day 1?

What mistakes or bad habits do beginners commonly develop then need to correct later?

Of course I know my teacher will help me with a lot of these things, but I also believe in the power of many minds.

Thank you all for the time you take to read and reply, I wish you all tango moments tonight...

BlueSkies
 
As a fellow beginner (I reached my 6 month anniversary), I feel especially qualified to give advice to a fellow leader.

1) The lead (at least for me) is the biggest difference between tango and other "ballroom" dances. You lead with what some people call "The Frame". This is a combination of the chest, shoulders, and arms together. You never lead with just the arms. Some people claim you can lead without using the arms at all, but I've yet to be convinced of that (at least for some moves).

2) What works for me, is to use a more forcefull lead when dancing with other beginners, but to use much less when leading better dancers. Basically, you have to adapt to whomever you are dancing with.

3) When taking group classes, they sometimes focus on the step, and not so much on the lead. They will show the leader and the follower how to do the steps, and since (at least usually) people know what they are supposed to do, the pattern (or the drill) gets executed OK. But you don't really know if you are leading anything, or if the follower is just doing what the instructor said. I find it helpfull to every now and then (after successfully doing the drill), is to vary the drill to see what the follower does. You may find out that they aren't following you at all. The bottom line, if you can't lead the step(s), it won't work at a milonga.

4) Here are some basic skills upon which to build your foundation.
- Be able to hear the rhythm (if you are at all musical, this won't be an issue).
- Be sure to always step on a beat (it doesn't have to be every beat, as everything can be improvised).
- Learn to "walk" (the tango walk) well. The basic variations are inside and outside, as well as both normal (or parallel) and crossed systems.

5) I've found watching video on both youtube and the tangovideoproject, to be very helpful for learning some things, and getting some ideas.

I hope this helps (at least a little).
 
Some less obvious hints. I remember my beginnings very clearly.

Step out confidently (torso first naturally...). No shuffling, no waddling, just nice clean steps. Your deftness, sure and clear motion will make you easy to follow.

Be nice to the ladies. Be smiley and happy wherever possible (not creepy). If she makes a mistake, laugh it off or pretend it never happened. Find diplomatic and constructive ways to suggest what your partner may be doing wrong in lessons. Happy ladies are more relaxed and focused on the dancing and this will help make the learning process easier for you and more pleasant. The converse is that the ladies get on guard and defensive, which makes everything difficult.

If your (and her) embrace gets too stiff, let it go a bit and put it back together again (or maybe take a deep breath and release). It's a harmless way of giving the pair of you a chance to restore your balance and posture, and can be done in a single beat of the music. I will sometimes "reset" my embrace three or four times in a single dance. It is a common error for dancers of all levels to get wound up and stiff as a board. Then communication is replaced with brute force and the magic is gone.

Beginner followers and even the better ones do not require more force to move when they don't get your lead, they require more clarity, perhaps bigger physical hints of what you are trying to do.

Music music music! It's there for you to use, don't ignore it.

One of the biggest blunders anyone can make is to rush. You don't have to nail every beat, so don't force something through when you can take a bit longer and do it nicely. Concentrate more on moving with your partner and communicating. Your follower will not thank you for feeling like she is being flung around the room (although some rare breeds like it, they are uncommon). Note that it is harder to do things very slowly. Taking your time is not coming to a total halt in each step, but smoothly progressing into the next at the speed of your choosing.

Lastly, don't get hooked on the sequences of steps you are taught. The familiarity makes it easy and it may be all you know, but it hides the more general principles from you, and gets really boring after a while when your memory can't bring them all back. Try to pick up the sequences part way through, or end them differently as you practice them. (Some followers are freaked out by this in lessons, and some teachers take offense too, but I'm an independent lad)

Take it on the chin and be as good as you want to be. If you're not the best dancer in the room, it doesn't matter because you still have your own charm, your own style. You can learn everything in time.
 
BlueSkies said:
My cunning plan is to rapidly graduate towards conscious incompetence and good habits ....
Click to expand...

Welcome to the DF, Blue Skies. I love your comment (referenced). It is where we all are, whether just beginning, or 20 years in. My humble advice....

All dance is first about movement to msuic. The essence (feeling) of this movement is unique to only you. Even your partner will be touched by, and thus feel/interpret a same music/movement in a different manner. Communication and sharing is one of the destinies of the dance. The secret of tango is in this moment.

2 important points:

1. Dance is not steps; it is that which happens in between.
2. Bill Irvine taught something he called monumental stillness. It is to dance in the silence. There is movement, that is to say, the essence/feeling, in the stillness, as well. Find this. It is where tango lives.
 
BlueSkies:

Let me answer you this way...

The metaphysical stuff

The objective of Argentine Tango is not dance for the awe and appreciation of others. The objective is to achieve that connection to whomever you dance with. There will come a time when "Magic" happens––an unbelievably beautiful melding of intent and movement between two people that is marvelously intimate.

This is achieved when all of the elements of AT come together (e.g. walks, hesitations, musicality, line of dance, etc.) without you ever having to thinks about it. It just happens. This is achieved over time via dedication to the dance.


The technical stuff

  1. Make sure your teacher is an Argentine Tango specialist. Someone who REALLY dances and understands the magic of Argentine Tango. Not just someone who knows steps.
  2. Master the basics (e.g walk, 8ct basic, 6 ct basic, basic fundamental AT rules)
  3. Learn how to string the basics together in musical interpretation.
  4. Don't be obsessed with steps. Step memorizers make the worse AT dancers
  5. Learn to lead. The art of making your partner do something in synch with you with saying anything. It is the basis of AT
  6. Be familiar with authentic traditional tango music (NOT ballroom adaptations). I'm talking about the old scratchy stuff. You'll understand eventually
  7. Be patient. AT requires time to learn. It requires time to be good at. I have lost count of the classmates I have had who wanted to learn everything AT fast. They're all gone from the milongas.
  8. Treat AT as a brand new dance learning experience. Keep an open mind, don't compare it to what you know now as this will be a brand new journey.

Start with that for now.
 
BlueSkies said:
A big hello to all here in the TA forum, let me start by saying I've enjoyed lurking for a little while and think you're all wonderful. (+3 Brownie points)

I'm a newborn TA leader,My cunning plan is to rapidly graduate towards conscious incompetence and good habits by asking you all-

What are the basics of step, of style, or musicality and musical interpretation?

What are the important conventions?

What words will it help me to know from day 1?

What mistakes or bad habits do beginners commonly develop then need to correct later?

Of course I know my teacher will help me with a lot of these things, but I also believe in the power of many minds.

Thank you all for the time you take to read and reply, I wish you all tango moments tonight...

BlueSkies
Click to expand...

Welcome to the world of AT:

Answering your pointers thus:

Steps - Your teacher will teach you. Practice, practice, practice.

Style - is something you either have or you don't (i.e. one man wearing an Armani suit will not be carried off in the same was as another). It's charisma. An internal rather than something that is manufactured from the external. That person that walks into a room and all heads turn.

Musicality/Musical interpretation - Ditto above. BUT...not a total impossibility. It can be taught/learned but much longer than it would take for something who naturally taps their feet/clicks their fingers and walk with the rhythm. When mastered/naturally god-given then leader only has to walk his folllower back, front and side and the magic of watching such a couple is better than those who have no musicality/deaf to the beat yet are using flashy steps like gancho, boleos, barridas etc.

Important conventions - nothing is as important as life and good health. Don't get bogged down with the politics of AT (of which there too, too much). Just enjoy. And remember balance AT with other activities.

Mistakes/bad habits of beginners: Believe it or not, I tend to see most of the mistakes being executed by the intermediates/advance dancers. Think of driving. The Beginner passes his test and 5 years later he/she's driving like a complete maniac, one hand on the wheel, not glancing enough in the mirror, speeding etc. etc. Same in AT.

With the risk of sounding like a Buddhist philosopher - my words to you from Day 1 would be: As you improve/get better/become intermediate then advance, never, ever discard the memory of having once been a beginner yourself and have grace and patience for those who are just starting out. And if we were to return to the subject of "style" that would be it.

Good luck and enjoy ;)
 
Things that are like wearing an 'I'm a beginner" sign:
Doing the 8CB
Ending all your patterns with the 6,7 and 8 of the 8CB (resolucion)
Not making pauses (not pauses between the dances, pauses during the dance)
Not following the general flow (not starting when everybody starts, nat talking when everybody talks)
Apologizing or even talking during the dance
Using a very distant embrace
Not twisting the torso
Trying to avoid your partner's feet (duck/cowboy walk)
 
Hi all,

Thank you so much for your great answers and your welcomes!

DChester, Thanks for sharing your experiences as a relatively new leader to AT, some are familiar to me already others I am sure I will encounter in time! I found some good videos on youtube under a poster called tangoafficionado http://www.youtube.com/user/tangoafficionado- I'll check out the tangovideoproject, hadn't heard of that!

Steve, Bordertangoman, thank you for those links - many happy hours of browsing there!

Dave, you are a lifesaver, and I'm going to learn some particularly obscure terms to drop into conversation to get back at anyone that confuses me in future :twisted:

Kieron, thank you for all your advice - I will particularly remember your embrace "reset", as I have a tendancy to tense up which no doubt makes my partners want to thump rather than stroke my arm muscles! I am also trying to learn the not rushing thing - Salsa being generally such a move-it-along kind of dance I will be working on that.

Angel, that was poetry thank you. I shall seek this tantra of tango of which you speak, this monumental stillness that leads to great things. Already tango is teaching me that I was missing the point when I was "dancing" salsa.

Ampster, it was the hint of such magic in my earliest attempts that attracted me to AT, I shall continue to seek it. On your technical points, I'm on the case - my collection of authentic music complete with crackles and pops is growing rapidly! I've never been the most patient but I'll try! ;)

Heather, your advice helps me picture the journey ahead and may help me with the patience point. By style I really meant no-nos along the lines of those Newbie posted, but I take your point that you can't fake "style" in the sense you mention.

Newbie, thanks for the beginner telegraphs which will be very useful for me to keep an eye on. I'll be working on avoiding those, as well as some my teacher has just given me last night - things I've brought in from salsa and need to eradicate like wiggly shoulders and hips!

Lesson number one with my new teacher has given me a list of things to think about!
a) Mustn't wiggle my shoulders or hips
b) Relax don't tense up all the arms and shoulders
c) Remember to weight change before a backward ocho
d) Don't twist my hips in an attempt to mirror the ocho
e) Remember not to weight change before a forward ocho (or in the middle)
f) Lots of complicated things with shoulders and hands to "open doors" for forward ochos that I need to work out with graph paper ;-)
g) Mustn't wiggle my shoulders or hips!!!

Thank you all, you're the best!

Blue
 
Hi all,

I wrote a nice reply thanking you all individually and highlighting the things I loved from each of your fantastic posts but the moderators seem to have eaten it. :(

I found all of your replies very interesting and helpful so thank you very much!

Blue
 
...or your connection was lost. This site disconnects you very quickly, there is just enough time to write 3 lines if you put some thought in what you're writing, a bit more if you just let your fingers wandering on the keyboard. You may have connected, written your post, been disconnected without noticing, clicked on Submit Reply but too late and your post was lost.
 
BlueSkies said:
Hi all,

I wrote a nice reply thanking you all individually and highlighting the things I loved from each of your fantastic posts but the moderators seem to have eaten it. :(

I found all of your replies very interesting and helpful so thank you very much!

Blue
Click to expand...
I've found that if URLs (websites) are in my posts, they never make it to the forum. I don't know how high the posts counts have to be, before they make it through.
 
Well well, so it's been a year to the day since I had all these questions!

And what a year! Tango has grown from "Let's give this a go" into an essential part of life, a 3-4 times a week obsession and a source of joy, passion, romance and confidence bringing fundamental differences in my life, beyond anything I could ever have expected.

I've been lucky enough to find some great teachers and benefit from their ability to teach me in a way that challenges and motivates me. Huge thanks to them if by any chance they're reading this and work out who I am!!!

I've danced with such lovely ladies at all levels, and met so many sociable and welcoming people. The tango community seems to be a wonderful one. I'm particularly grateful to all the ladies who encouraged me and supported me as I built my skills and confidence.

I've also enjoyed reading so many interesting threads and opinions on here. This forum is a great resource, and the helpful community here really makes it work.

I believe life is marked by extraordinary moments, snapshots that will be remembered for years, even forever. I'm looking forward to the next 20 tango-learning years, full of these moments, with a great soundtrack to go with them.

That's enough from me, just thought I'd mark my tango birthday and say hello again!

Blue
 
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