I’m excited to start dancing in february, and I would love to compete eventually. I came across a few things I would really want to know about dance and competing. I’m sorry if they are quite stupid questions
- I’m 15 now and I’m a little scared that I might be to old to start dancing and have a chance at actually being succesful competing. Is this something I should be worried about?
- What is the difference between pro-am and am-am competitions? And are these the type of levels used internationally?
- My danceclasses are at a local danceschool, which doesn’t offer lessons for competitions. I know I really want to compete, is it better to start at a danceschool which offers these lessons as well, even though I am new to dancing?
- I live in The Netherlands and there is this system with danceclass levels. You start out in the Bronze group, move up to Gold/Gold-star and only then competing is possible. Is that a Dutch thing or is it common?
- And this one is a bit stupid: Are fake eyelashes (for comps) re-usable?
English is not my native language, so I’m sorry for any mistakes.
Hi @DutchDance. Welcome to the forums! And more importantly, welcome to the wonderful world of dance.
Based on you mentioning Bronze, Gold, and Gold Star, I assume that you are doing Ballroom dance (I recognize the terms from the Imperial Society of Teachers of Dancing, ISTD) If so, then I think I can answer your questions. That fact that I'm in the USA shouldn't make a difference--we use more or less the same organizational structures here.
- I’m 15 now and I’m a little scared that I might be to old to start dancing and have a chance at actually being succesful competing. Is this something I should be worried about?
Absolutely not too late. I started dancing ten years later than you, at age 25. I now compete at the Gold level, and reach the top 6 about half the time in fields consisting of 20-40 couples (if those terms means nothing to you, no worries--I talk about that further down. Suffice it to say that I'm reasonably successful). What's more, there is no sign that I have reached the limits of my potential; I plan to move up into the Open categories in about 2 years.
The only thing you'll need to watch out for as a "late starter" is that it will probably take you longer to learn some things compared to a child of 7 or 9 years. This can feel frustrating. However, age usually also brings with it the advantages of increased discipline and a greater ability to focus. If you apply those consistently, you should have no trouble gaining skills.
Pro-Am is short for Professional-Amateur. Am-am is short for Amateur-Amateur. These are not dance levels; instead, they describe the composition of the dancing couple.
Pro-am couples consist of one amateur dancing with one professional, who is usually their coach. In pro-am competitions, judging and placements are based solely on the amateur's performance. Because the leader and follower roles have quite different responsibilities and learning curves, amateur men (leaders) and amateur women (followers) dance in different divisions.
Am-am couples consist of two amateurs dancing together. In am-am competitions, judges consider the performance of the couple as a whole. There is no division in am-am competition that resembles the leader/follower divide in pro-am--other than age groups, everyone dances together.
(Depending on the rules of the dance organizations in your area, there may also be separate divisions for same-sex couples. In the USA, these divisions are gradually disappearing, with same-sex couples competing alongside mixed-sex couples in the same division. I don't know anything about how this is handled in the Netherlands.)
In both pro-am and am-am competition, competitors are grouped into skill levels, which are the Bronze/Gold classes you mentioned. We'll talk more about these later.
- My danceclasses are at a local danceschool, which doesn’t offer lessons for competitions. I know I really want to compete, is it better to start at a danceschool which offers these lessons as well, even though I am new to dancing?
My experience in the USA has generally been that competitive classes and competition teachers offer more rigorous instruction. If you know you want to compete, that attention to detail will be very helpful for you.
However, the most important things to consider in choosing a studio and a teacher--particularly when you are just getting started--are personal chemistry and the coach's teaching skills. Any professional dancer has the requisite dance skills and knowledge to coach you up through the Silver level, but if they are lousy teachers or if you don't get along with them at all, you will hate practicing and likely won't stick with the sport. It is vitally important to love what you're doing and to look forward to practicing if you want to compete.
My advice would be to try a few classes at a number of studios, and pick whichever one you like best. Don't choose the nearest just because it is convenient, or the "competitive" one just because it has a better reputation. At least, not at first.
- I live in The Netherlands and there is this system with danceclass levels. You start out in the Bronze group, move up to Gold/Gold-star and only then competing is possible. Is that a Dutch thing or is it common?
As I mentioned before, this sounds to me like the ISTD standards. If so, then they mirror the skill levels used by the World Dance Council (WDC) and World DanceSport Federation (WDSF), which are the two main international governing bodies that sanction and organize ballroom dance competitions. The skill levels they use are essentially the same, and are used quite widely. Here's a brief description from Wikipedia.
Competitors dance at different levels based on their ability and experience. The levels are split into two categories, syllabus and open. The syllabus levels are newcomer/pre-bronze, bronze, silver, and gold—with gold the highest syllabus level and newcomer the lowest. In these levels, moves are restricted to those written in a syllabus, and illegal moves can lead to disqualification. Each level, bronze, silver, and gold, has different moves on their syllabus, increasing in difficulty. There are three levels in the open category; novice, pre-champ, and champ in increasing order of skill. At those levels, dancers no longer have restrictions on their moves, so complex routines are more common.
I am quite surprised to hear that dancers in the Netherlands cannot compete until they surpass the Gold-Star level, which corresponds roughly to the Open category. That level takes several years of hard work to obtain; the fastest progression from newcomer to Open that I've ever personally witnessed was 4 years, practicing 5 days per week.
In the USA, you can compete from the very first day you start dancing, but you will only be competing against dancers in the same skill class as you. Hopefully that provides some context for my introduction, where I described myself as a reasonably successful Gold-level competitor.
I've never worn fake lashes, so I asked my partner what she does.
She says that it depends on the brand. Some lashes are reusable and some are not. She personally prefers not to reuse them, because if you do not clean them diligently they will attract lice and mites. That said, if you do carefully clean them every time, you should not have problems. It is up to you to decide whether the cost of replacement or the annoyance of cleaning is preferable.
Hi DD, welcome to DF and welcome to the world of dance.
I find the age of 15 is not too old. Admitted, my teachers started at a younger age. They were ballet dancers. And because they started earlier, they already were physically and psychologically worn out at the age of 24. Many severe injuries and attritions had accumulated, finally they crossed over to partner dance. With 15 you are much more critical, you are able to detect noxious impacts, and of course you are able to contradict your trainers who will see in you only a machine on the road to success.
Pro-Am and Am-Am is not my thing, so others around should contribute.
The situation concerning lessons with or without competitive bias is complicated. Usually competitive and non-competitive schools are members of different associations. It is not a question of quality, its a political thing. And although you are excited and highly motivated, this question now is absolutely secondary: You will swap dance schools frequently in your future life from now on. If you really want to be a competitive dancer, you will be in search of the perfect trainer for the next 15 years, regardless which league or organization he actually belongs to. But one thing is really important: join your local dance school, because you have be integrated into the scene. Otherwise you will not hear all those vital rumors and hear-say. Without a scene, you will have much difficulties to find a dance partner. And you will have a high consumption of dance partners!
The metal medal system is not my thing, so others around should contribute.
Recyclable eyelashes is not my thing, so others around should contribute.
One point is missing: you need a strengthening system for your body. I do Pilates regularly, but Alexander or Feldenkrais will also do. The system for your body is not arbitrary. As a young girl you may find yourself already athletic and trained. But remind that Pilates was invented as compensatory exercise specifically for ballet dancers.
I’m excited to start dancing in february, and I would love to compete eventually. I came across a few things I would really want to know about dance and competing. I’m sorry if they are quite stupid questions
- I’m 15 now and I’m a little scared that I might be to old to start dancing and have a chance at actually being succesful competing. Is this something I should be worried about?
- What is the difference between pro-am and am-am competitions? And are these the type of levels used internationally?
- My danceclasses are at a local danceschool, which doesn’t offer lessons for competitions. I know I really want to compete, is it better to start at a danceschool which offers these lessons as well, even though I am new to dancing?
- I live in The Netherlands and there is this system with danceclass levels. You start out in the Bronze group, move up to Gold/Gold-star and only then competing is possible. Is that a Dutch thing or is it common?
- And this one is a bit stupid: Are fake eyelashes (for comps) re-usable?
English is not my native language, so I’m sorry for any mistakes.
- I live in The Netherlands and there is this system with danceclass levels. You start out in the Bronze group, move up to Gold/Gold-star and only then competing is possible. Is that a Dutch thing or is it common?
The levels are common and correspond to syllabus categories; Bronze for example is normally restricted to the Associate level syllabus, which consists of basic steps that are designed to teach basic movements; Silver includes Member syllabus figures which teach more advanced movements and technique; Gold adds Fellows figures which notably includes most of the picture lines. After that you are in some sort of Open category that is unrestricted as to syllabus.
In the US, you can start competing immediately, for example in Bronze competition categories against other Bronze level competitors. Competitions are also divided by age category; in your case for example if you were to compete immediately you would be starting in the Junior II Bronze category, where you would be dancing against people of similar age who are also relative beginners. Starting at 15 would not be an issue for this.
It sounds like the Dutch system may be different and may not permit you to compete - or possibly the studio you are talking to is not interested in your competing - until you have already progressed to an Open level. That might or might not change things with respect to competition.
I will say that if you have your heart set on being World (or British Open) Champion, it's a big advantage to have started at an earlier age, or to have other dance experience such as ballet at an earlier age. This is because the foot strength involved in balance is easier to develop during the pubertal years. For girls, those years are generally mostly over by 15, so you will have a more difficult path getting to the top.
Of course, there are a lot of other things that you have to get lucky about if you want to be World Champion, so that's not necessarily a realistically achievable goal for anyone. You're certainly not to old to get a lot of enjoyment out of ballroom dancing and competition, and not too old to become a professional and make a career out of it if that's what you want to do.
You may get additional perspectives if you post - or get this thread moved to - the Ballroom forum.
I am quite surprised to hear that dancers in the Netherlands cannot compete until they surpass the Gold-Star level, which corresponds roughly to the Open category.
I might have gotten the wrong information. A former dancer told me, but she danced years ago, so maybe they changed it, or she was informed wrong as well.
Thank you all for welcoming me! I’m very excited to start my dancing journey.
And thank you all so much for all the answers and information!
Ballroom competition dancing isn’t my world (I am into social Argentine tango). But my understanding is that there are some important differences between the US and Europe. I believe that PRO-AM competitions don’t exist in Europe. All competitions are AM-AM and/or PRO-PRO (at a high level).
