Abrazo - The Embrace

Zoopsia59 said:
Personally I find it awkward to have an elastic embrace when dancing apilado. Unless the leader is very skilled at feeling just how far off axis I am compared to where he wants me next, it's too hard to go from being off balance to being back on my own balance. If he is not even aware that I am leaning on him, then he won't be prepared to resettle me upright to have the embrace flexible.

Even if he is aware, and wants me leaning on him, he still must take the responsibility for adjusting so that I am on my own axis when he desires that, and that I know it is intentional (since my instinct would be to maintain the current apilado connection by the way I reach unless specifically led otherwise)

I haven't found leaders who do that. I have found leaders who dance close embrace and have a flexible embrace. But they aren't dancing apilado/milonguero.

Typically (IME) a true milonguero embrace doesn't change much. It's also awkward for the follower to move her left arm from being hooked around his neck to opening the embrace. In my mind, that hooked arm is a part of the milonguero style. "Close embrace" is not synonymous with "milonguero".
Click to expand...
Agreed. Although I don't generally consider the hooked arm as part of things, and I don't generally find it any more awkward to move my arm from being hooked to an open embrace sort of thing, than for any other close embrace arm position. But otherwise, completely agreed.
 
Zoopsia59 said:
I haven't found leaders who do that. I have found leaders who dance close embrace and have a flexible embrace. But they aren't dancing apilado/milonguero.
Click to expand...

Hi Zoops, here I am ;) Is it me you mean by this? And, is it the same as liquido you mean by flexible embrace? Usually I dance very close (profundo) but not apilado, which is for me parallel and with some percent of lean.

Zoopsia59 said:
It's also awkward for the follower to move her left arm from being hooked around his neck to opening the embrace
Click to expand...

No no, it just the other way round !! It´s awkward and uncomfortable for the leader if a follower doesnt use the shoulder-slide, if the leader wants it. And it´s hurting sometimes, too. Advanced followers know this kind of lead. Usually I talk to a follower afterwards, if she didnt slip. And always the answer is, thanks, thats interesting, no one told me, by now.

But it seems that we use a different vocabulary, too. I use the word "hooked" only for the elbow up variant, with the hand on the spine. I haven´t got a special word for the neck hold, because it is just the normal way to rest your left hand.

Happy easter days, by the way
od
 
Zoopsia59 said:
Even if he is aware, and wants me leaning on him, he still must take the responsibility for adjusting so that I am on my own axis when he desires that, and that I know it is intentional (since my instinct would be to maintain the current apilado connection by the way I reach unless specifically led otherwise)

I haven't found leaders who do that.
Click to expand...
I do that sometimes. Not sure how good I am at it, though.

Zoopsia59 said:
I have found leaders who dance close embrace and have a flexible embrace. But they aren't dancing apilado/milonguero.

Typically (IME) a true milonguero embrace doesn't change much. It's also awkward for the follower to move her left arm from being hooked around his neck to opening the embrace. In my mind, that hooked arm is a part of the milonguero style. "Close embrace" is not synonymous with "milonguero".
Click to expand...
I agree with this. There are different "flavors" of close embrace.

I would also say that a style encompasses more than just the embrace (IMO). Examples: The apilado embrace is used with milonguero style. The V embrace can be used with VU style.

I know there are lots of opinions and different usages for a lot of this stuff, thus I free admit that these are simply my usages/opinions.
 
opendoor said:
No no, it just the other way round !! It´s awkward and uncomfortable for the leader if a follower doesnt use the shoulder-slide, if the leader wants it. And it´s hurting sometimes, too. Advanced followers know this kind of lead. Usually I talk to a follower afterwards, if she didnt slip. And always the answer is, thanks, thats interesting, no one told me, by now.

But it seems that we use a different vocabulary, too. I use the word "hooked" only for the elbow up variant, with the hand on the spine. I haven´t got a special word for the neck hold, because it is just the normal way to rest your left hand.
Click to expand...

I think you misunderstood me. I was addressing specifically a milonguero hold which, to me includes the follower's left arm around the leader's neck such that her elbow is at the back of his neck. (not her hand on his neck) Her hand is either down his spine or on his left shoulder (or wherever it happens to reach based on her elbow being behind his neck)

I'm not saying it is necessary for the dance to have the arm there for a milonguero style, but that it is a common way for milongueros to embrace. Typically those who use that hold do NOT change the embrace while dancing. Part of what I consider a milonguero style is that the embrace does not change. For me, "milonguero style" means more than just how the bodies are connected at the torso for the majority of the dance. In milonguero, it is the entirety of the dance.

So in that case, there is no "shoulder-slide" as you describe in what I call milonguero because the embrace is not going to open and close or flex or open along one side for specific moves. The arm doesn't have to adjust because the embrace doesn't change. Not all close embrace is milonguero style, obviously. Around here, people use the term "salon style" to mean CE that flexes but stays fairly close, and "nuevo" for a dance that is primarily open and uses large sweeping moves.

So your contradiction of my statement doesn't make sense in that context. It can be awkward for the follower to take her arm from having it hooked on his neck (especially if height is an issue) to opening the embrace. It's not an easy position to slide from (to go from having your elbow being the highest point to sliding your arm) especially if the leader is tall. (for me anyway)

If I am dancing this way, it is because I don't expect the leader to change the embrace. For the leader to do so when we have established a milonguero style dance up to that point is disconcerting. (and at that point, it becomes uncomfortable for the leader if he tries to adjust because it is awkward for the follower to make the adjustment.)

I don't use that arm position in CE except in rare cases for that reason. Very few leaders I know dance milonguero. Most of the CE leaders I know dance "salon" and at least one of the leaders who does dance a completely non changing milonguero style is too tall for me to hook my arm on his neck anyway.

However, the post I was answering had to do with "milonguero". For the definition of milonguero I know, part of the definition is that the embrace does not open and close or even open along the followers right side for certain moves. It stays flat on, directly in front, strongly connected in the chest, for the entire dance with NO adjustments. That's why I consider the style to go beyond just the closeness of connection or lean. It's a dance that happens from the ribs down.
 
dchester said:
I would also say that a style encompasses more than just the embrace (IMO). Examples: The apilado embrace is used with milonguero style. The V embrace can be used with VU style.

I know there are lots of opinions and different usages for a lot of this stuff, thus I free admit that these are simply my usages/opinions.
Click to expand...


I am so confused.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Dance Ads

Advertise on Dance Forums Reach dancers, teachers, studios, event organizers, and dance-friendly brands. View ad options
Back
Top