Adventures with an IDTA syllabus... :)

[UKDancer]

I was with you until that last sentence. That was not only moving the goalposts, but transplanting them to the outer reaches of the solar system.

If you honestly can't see the difference between something done as a hobby and a complex, highly technical specialty that people's lives depend on, then my friend, I can only quote Hector Maure at you:

Para qué seguir mintiendo?
Andá y buscate, mi hijita,
quién te saque la tierrita
que tenés en la cabeza..

Ah, but you have made an assumption about my meaning, but even if you had not, I would say that dancing is very much more than a hobby for lots of people, and they take their dancing very seriously indeed. But no, the reason I mentioned medics is that at the hospital your starting position is that you trust that the doctor is properly qualified for his work. You don't think to doubt that he knows what he's doing. You know he is, well, a doctor.

Now, when you come along to a dance school, as a beginning dancer, you don't know anything very much about the dance you want to learn. Lots of students take for granted that the staff are properly trained for their work. If their lives depended on the outcome of the class, they might actually check, but by-and-large they trust that the teacher knows what he is doing.

My own rather modest ambition for the certification of dance teachers is that they actually do. That's all.

 

[Steve Pastor]

As far as I can tell, the only members of the wider dance community with hangups about BR are tango dancers.

I'd have to add that, as someone who learned to dance amost exclusively in truck stops, bars, country western dance halls, etc, where there is not an ATer to be seen for a country mile, you might think that I have "hangups" about BR.

It's the wanna be regulatory nature of "societies" that is most off putting.
The other thing that I really don't like is the redefining, and "ballrooming" of dances that has happened repeatedly whenever a "society" is created.

That said, my own experience with honky tonk West Coast Swing vs certified teacher / studio WCS tells me that teacher training can be very worthwhile. HOW that training is applied, and what philosophy goes along with it is crucial, however, to how it is perceived by "non ballroomers".

 

[salthepal]

Do all certified ballroom teachers know what they're doing?

 

[UKDancer]

Do all certified ballroom teachers know what they're doing?

At face value, yes they do (although not all certifications are of equal value or rigour). I see no reason to think that the percentage of bad-uns is any higher than, say, teachers of WCS?

However, I seriously doubt that the holders of any of the currently available AT certifications know what they are doing directly through the certification that they hold. I learned nothing from mine.

 

[AndaBien]

I'm wondering if Ballroom has as many traveling teachers as AT does.

Also wondering how many traveling AT teachers would feel inclined to get "certified".

Also wondering how the AT community would respond to knowledge that an AT teacher was certified. I imagine that most AT dancers would be rather bemused by the idea that one of their teachers had been qualified by some organization.

 

[UKDancer]

I'm wondering if Ballroom has as many traveling teachers as AT does.

I'm no expert on the world of dancesport, but I would guess that it has rather more (which I'm sure is not what you would expect me to say). Dancesport is a big industry, and those that travel widely to compete at a high level are frequently in great demand as competitive coaches. Not many of them are certified teachers, probably.

I'm wondering why you seem to be obsessed by ballroom. It's very odd.

Also wondering how many traveling AT teachers would feel inclined to get "certified".

Very few, at a guess: why would they care?

Also wondering how the AT community would respond to knowledge that an AT teacher was certified. I imagine that most AT dancers would be rather bemused by the idea that one of their teachers had been qualified by some organization.

Well, if by community you mean the members of the dominant clique in a particular area, I would neither know, nor care. As for beginners, I doubt it would occur to them to ask.

 

[AndaBien]

...I'm wondering why you seem to be obsessed by ballroom. It's very odd...

My obsessions are not with ballroom. I thought the topic here is about certifying AT teachers for the ballroom community.

 

[UKDancer]

My obsessions are not with ballroom. I thought the topic here is about certifying AT teachers for the ballroom community.

Is it? What need has the ballroom community of certified AT teachers?

 

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Do all certified ballroom teachers know what they're doing?

No.

I'm fairly certain that most (probably all) of the best/very good ballroom teachers in my area are not certified (BTW, many of them are unfamiliar with the syllabus, some with little to no exposure ). We have good teachers with certifications and 15-20 years of experience. We also have certified teachers with barely a year of dance experience. IMO, a certification is only one of a number of things that increase the likelihood of someone being a good ballroom teacher.

 

[AndaBien]

Is it? What need has the ballroom community of certified AT teachers?

Some members of the ballroom community have been trying to include AT in ballroom since at least 15 years ago. I thought the whole syllabus idea was for the sake of ballroom teachers.

If the syllabus is for the sake of certifying AT teachers to the AT community, I find it even more, um, counterproductive.

 

[UKDancer]

Some members of the ballroom community have been trying to include AT in ballroom since at least 15 years ago. I thought the whole syllabus idea was for the sake of ballroom teachers.

If the syllabus is for the sake of certifying AT teachers to the AT community, I find it even more, um, counterproductive.

That seems daft, AT isn't a ballroom dance - have they not noticed? You could tell them, gently.

You've made no case for certifying AT teachers being counter-productive. If you have, I'm sorry, but I missed it.

 

[UKDancer]

IMO, a certification is only one of a number of things that increase the likelihood of someone being a good ballroom teacher.

As a certified ballroom teacher, myself, I'm glad we agree that certification is one of the things that increases the likelihood of someone being a good ballroom teacher. It seems a lot of effort, otherwise.

Wasn't this discussion about tango, though?

 

[Subliminal]

Let's say I was the supreme ruler of tango responsible for certifying tango teachers. This is how I would do it.

1. "I'm going to play a rhythmic tango. Lead me through it. You may only walk or use rocksteps."
2. "Same song. I am leading."
3. "Now a melodic tango. You lead. Walking and rocksteps."
4. "Same song, I lead."
5. "I am a beginning leader. Teach me ochos."
6. "I am a beginning follower. Teach me ochos."
7. "Pick a song. You may lead or follow as you choose. You can use anything you know. Tell me 10 mistakes that I made or areas for improvement when the song is over."

That's it. No levels. Just a flat bar. You do good enough? Congrats, you're a tango teacher. Completely subjective.

Can you come up with an objective test that approximates that?

 

[AndaBien]

That seems daft, AT isn't a ballroom dance - have they not noticed? You could tell them, gently....

I think they got the message, none too gently.

...You've made no case for certifying AT teachers being counter-productive. If you have, I'm sorry, but I missed it.

I expect AT dancers would regard the non-standardized nature of AT more highly than Ballroom dancers would.

 

[UKDancer]

I expect AT dancers would regard the non-standardized nature of AT more highly than Ballroom dancers would.

That's a bit thin as a 'case'. Why should ballroom dancers have any opinion about tango (and why should the tango community care either way)? Surely, any decent certification that might be available in tango should reflect the character of the dance (which I happen to believe to be largely standardised, already).

If your view is that certification is, intrinsically, a bad thing, then fair enough, but I'm not sure you've said why, or made the case.