Advice for Am/Am couple competing for the first time

[GinaN]

Well, not to speak for fasc (seriously, take this only as my own input), the thing about multidance events is that at some competitions, you can easily run up against people who have been dancing for years, even in bronze. That could be pretty discouraging for someone just starting out. You should be able to avoid that in a newcomer category, while still getting the experience of getting an introduction to competing in multdance events. Whether or not that's worth it to you is going to be a very personal decision.

The number of entries you do is going to be a pretty similar personal decision. I tend to do fairly minimal entries myself, but it is true that those minimal entries don't take long at all. It's very, very easy to find oneself thinking "man, I wish I had more dances coming up" in that situation. But I still consider it the right call for me. I'd generally prefer to put the resources that I would spend on multiple rounds of freestyles into more lessons instead. Others prefer to do more dancing at the competitions. There really is no single answer. The only thing I'll say though is that you shouldn't let yourself feel pressured into doing more than you may really be comfortable with.

I see - I did not realize that could be a factor in multidance events.

And I appreciate your input! It is a whole new world for me so I want to hear everything, I want to learn.

Right - I can imagine that after all the preparation and adrenaline the whole thing can go by pretty quick. And I think that yes, when money is not unlimited, doing less entries but then being able to do more lessons might be the best of both worlds. I am just trying to have some guidance as to what may be OK to do or what sounds like a lot, even though I realize ultimately it's going to be my decision. Also realizing I may end up doing x and find out it was totally wrong. I won't know until I do a competition, or even a few, what my preferences will be.

My coach is definitely cool with whatever what we want to do, although he really is heavily encouraging doing at least 50. The thing is when you know NOTHING it's not even about pressure - it's about not even knowing what OPTIONS there are. If it wasn't for my own questioning/research I wouldn't even know that there were other options.

 

[GinaN]

The answers to a lot of these questions will depend on the competition. It sounds like you're dancing as an amateur couple (not pro-am), which means you have some different options. It also sounds like you've got a particular competition picked out which isn't like the ones I'm familiar with, so I'll defer to fasc and Jude as far as those specifics. But for future reference, a lot of USA Dance competitions and collegiate competitions (which are open to anyone, not just students) just charge a single registration fee that covers unlimited entries. That said, if you're just dancing one style, there wouldn't be huge numbers of entries available. In a collegiate comp, you could probably just dance at two proficiency levels, and they typically don't divide into age categories, so you'd have at most two events for each of your dances (though those fields tend to be big, so if you make it through multiple rounds, you could be dancing a lot). USA Dance comps let you dance at two proficiency levels and two age categories, so that would be at most four events for each of your dances.

In general, I agree with dancing as much as possible. It's nice to have another chance if one event doesn't go as well as you'd like, and it's nice to feel like you've really done something for all your preparation and money. But you also don't want to be worrying about the money the whole time. And it also depends on your stamina. I'd say to decide on a budget that you're comfortable with and dance as much as you can within that. And then as you gain experience, you'll be able to figure out what your own preferences are.

As an amateur couple with a teacher who judges, if we're going to a comp that he happens to be judging at, he's there, but we don't (and really shouldn't) interact with him much. But it's nice afterwards that he can gear his instruction to what he saw. If he's not judging, we go alone, though there are usually other dancers we know to hang out with.

We have an eye on a specific competition, but not for any particular reason other than it's coming up! We really are just learning and starting to figure things out. But I understand what you're saying that a lot of these answers depend on the specific competition.

And I did find out that USA Dance competitions are different - so I started to looking into some competitions from USA Dance too - just to start to understand what the options are and what the differences are.

You're right, I want to feel good about the money I spend to compete no matter what happens - I like your suggestion to set a budget first of what I am willing to spend/feel good about and then go from there.

I'm asking about whether to go with an instructor because of course it costs more to do that, although I can definitely see the advantages of having him there with us to guide us and encourage us and basically tell us what the heck to do! So again, it's one of those things that I didn't even know was an option at some competitions. I thought you always needed to be represented by a school or by a coach.

 

[Bailamosdance]

50 entries? To me, spending thousands of dollars in entry fees does not advance your dancing. If for instance, you are one of 4 couples in an event, the minute of dance that is spent watching you means that each judge glances at you for a few seconds at most. They look mostly for poor quality since they will use that to mark you against others. When you tire after 20 or 30 dances (I cannot imagine how exhausting it must be if you are truly dancing your entire body) you then look worse.

 

[RiseNFall]

Personally, I would do more like 20 entries since (I assume) they will all be on one day. I personally would want the opportunity to mess up royally in some of the heats and then try it again, but too many and you might be too tired to think straight.

... unless the competition has a "newcomer" category for one of their multidance events. Some do, some don't. But if the comp does have such an event, this'd be her only chance to enter it.

The NDCA definition of "newcomer" is the first year of competing at NDCA events, however an individual NDCA competition is free to define it differently, for example first ballroom comp ever. You have to check the rules of the specific competition.

 

[GinaN]

50 entries? To me, spending thousands of dollars in entry fees does not advance your dancing. If for instance, you are one of 4 couples in an event, the minute of dance that is spent watching you means that each judge glances at you for a few seconds at most. They look mostly for poor quality since they will use that to mark you against others. When you tire after 20 or 30 dances (I cannot imagine how exhausting it must be if you are truly dancing your entire body) you then look worse.

Right...and see I wouldn't know any different until I started reading a little bit and seeing #s more like in the 20s...and 30s...that's what got me questioning it. Aside from the fact that even though I expected competitions to be expensive I didn't expect it AS expensive as thousands...perhaps one day I may want to spend that kind of money, but I don't think for the first one...

By poor quality I'm assuming you mean poor technique, frame, etc., right. And yes, I imagine that while it's definitely good to have a chance to dance something more than once I would imagine that physical and mental fatigue start to set in at some point.

 

[GinaN]

Personally, I would do more like 20 entries since (I assume) they will all be on one day. I personally would want the opportunity to mess up royally in some of the heats and then try it again, but too many and you might be too tired to think straight.

The NDCA definition of "newcomer" is the first year of competing at NDCA events, however an individual NDCA competition is free to define it differently, for example first ballroom comp ever. You have to check the rules of the specific competition.

Yes, they are all in 1 day, and I agree with you about the fine line between having more than one chance and overdoing it.

Funny - I asked the organizer of the event for the rules but she directed me to the NDCA website - I guess I can assume they're followin those rules to the letter, then?

 

[nikkitta]

Better to assume nothing. I've seen far too many bent and twisted "rules" at comps. Not that that should discourage you from trying to follow the rules.

 

[GinaN]

Better to assume nothing. I've seen far too many bent and twisted "rules" at comps. Not that that should discourage you from trying to follow the rules.

Yes, even at this very beginner level I see that, because I've already gotten conflicting information...some people have told me at my level I *cannot* wear a costume, others have told me that rule is not enforced...

I'll call the organizer again and ask her some of the specifics.

 

[RiseNFall]

I think that part of the different information you are getting is the difference between NDCA rules and USA Dance rules. My experience with NDCA comps is that if they don't post rules to the contrary, they are following what is stated in the NDCA rulebook. I have e-mailed organizers to verify that, though. Your teacher should be able to help you with the rules as well.

 

[GinaN]

I think that part of the different information you are getting is the difference between NDCA rules and USA Dance rules. My experience with NDCA comps is that if they don't post rules to the contrary, they are following what is stated in the NDCA rulebook. I have e-mailed organizers to verify that, though. Your teacher should be able to help you with the rules as well.

I think you're probably right...because I didn't even realize there was a NDCA and a USA Dance up until like yesterday or today.

I'm feeling a little bit "on my own" as far as figuring out all this stuff. My teacher doesn't seem that well informed or is just not that detailed (or maybe I have too many questions, which is entirely possible!)

 

[JudeMorrigan]

I think that part of the different information you are getting is the difference between NDCA rules and USA Dance rules. My experience with NDCA comps is that if they don't post rules to the contrary, they are following what is stated in the NDCA rulebook. I have e-mailed organizers to verify that, though. Your teacher should be able to help you with the rules as well.

The NDCA rulebook actually does have rules against costumes for syllabus level am-ams. It's explicitly noted in the rulebook that organizers can establish alternate guidelines if they so desire, however.

 

[fascination]

You mean we should avoid multidance events?

Money is definitely an "object"! At the same time I just want to be smart about it (eta meaning I want to make the most of the experience. I heard it can get tiring/boring and even cause anxiety to sit around waiting to dance). Instructor is suggesting 50 entries and it just sounds like a lot of dancing when I've read here people doing just 20 (plus it IS expensive).

And yes @JudeMorrigan they do have a newcomer category for the multidance events.

Do you guys usually enter with a coach/instructor or do you go on your own? (is going on your own always allowed or some competitions require a school?)

ETA: from what I saw on the form, no, they don't require bolero...

given that you are that new, only know 3/4 of one style and there are probably age and skill limits to your entries (read the rules on their website)...I wouldn't do 50 the first time...that seems excessive when you are still so new...that being said, if there is a newcomer multi, that seems fine...but yes, to do a simply bronze scholarship could be...deflating as true newcomers

 

[fascination]

I think you're probably right...because I didn't even realize there was a NDCA and a USA Dance up until like yesterday or today.

I'm feeling a little bit "on my own" as far as figuring out all this stuff. My teacher doesn't seem that well informed or is just not that detailed (or maybe I have too many questions, which is entirely possible!)

this should be a flag about dancing that many entires...and go to website and be sure you are fully informed before you make choices...email the organizer if neccessary

 

[nikkitta]

aaand sometimes the organizers don't know jack about their guidelines either. I remember going back and forth with an organizer, specifically asking if we could do particular events, and quoting relevant parts of the rulebook, and she Just Didn't Get It.

It went something like: "We'd like to dance X, Y, and Z. Can we do that?"

"WE DO NOT HAVE ANY RESTRICTIONS. YOU NEED TO READ EACH ORGANIZERS RULES AND REGULATIONS WE ARE NOT ALL THE SAME."

"But your website says competitors must follow NDCA rules..."

*blink*blink*
(and yes, the organizer replied in all caps each time)

 

[GinaN]

The NDCA rulebook actually does have rules against costumes for syllabus level am-ams. It's explicitly noted in the rulebook that organizers can establish alternate guidelines if they so desire, however.

Yes, I actually downloaded both the NDCA and USA Dance books...and will go through them. Then I can have some specific questions for the organizer.

Although as @nikkitta said I have a feeling it's not as simple as asking them, I'm sure there are some who are very detailed and are on top of things like that and others aren't or don't care...or don't have the patience to answer your questions. A few months back when I called an organizer for a different competition, he basically flat out refused to talk to me and said she only talks with instructors/coaches. :/