Advices For Milonga Participants
- Thread starter wadpro
- Start date
Tango... so easy a caveman could do it.
Captain Jep
Active Member
Personally I run up, grab them by the hair and drag them headfirst, kicking and screaming, onto the dancefloor.
Hey, it works for me.
Haha you can be as snarky as you like, but that doesn't negate the advantages of the cabeceo over a direct invitation if you're even slightly unsure of whether the lady wants to dance with you. If she doesn't want to dance with you, then she won't be in the awkward position of explaining why, and she won't be obligated to sit out the tanda because you marched up to her and put her on the spot.
I'm not out here just to evangelize about the cabeceo because I'm a converted purist and I'm so in love with BsAs and what everyone there does and whatever else you guys are imagining. I'm just trying to present idea that would help some people going to milongas to get dances without feeling awkward about creeping up to ladies and fretting about whether they're going to get that dance or not.
Have you ever considered the possibility that in some places, most people don't use the cabeceo? If you are in one of those places and actually wish to dance, then you conform to the local codes. It's really not that hard to understand, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do".
OK, if that's not the reason, then why are you evangelizing about the cabeceo? You act like most people have never heard about it.
Why are you making the assumption that people creep up to others. Even if I wanted to creep, I'm much too large anyways.
When in BsAs, people should respect their codes, IMO. When in other cities, I think people should respect the local codes, rather than whining about how it is done in some other city, like BsAs.
That being said, I have no problem with the cabeceo, but it's not the end all and be all. This past weekend, I used it occasionally, but I also manned up, and asked women to dance, as is commonly done at that milonga. BTW, I also had one women cabeceo me, and in addition, I also had one woman walk up to me and ask me to dance. Of course, I danced with both of them.
There are lots of possibilities, but (of course) different places have different local codes.
Which is it: I shouldn't bring up the cabeceo because in a lot of places people don't use it, or I shouldn't bring it up because everyone already knows about it?
Just as anyone can 'man up' at a bar and offer to buy a lady a drink, anyone can 'man up' and walk to a lady and ask for a dance at a milonga, but it doesn't make it classy. You'll be placing her in an awkward situation if for some reason she doesn't want to dance.
I've clearly stated (twice already, in fact), that the cabeceo can't be used all the time everywhere, especially here in the US; for various reasons, among them: dimly-lit venues, big halls, or the simple fact that dancers don't know about it and just look away or at the floor whenever there's eye contact. Precisely for that last reason, is why I'm posting about it here.
Again, you keep acting like I'm trying to irritate you by posting about the cabeceo even though you know and use it. Good on you that you do and that you can get dances without any problems. Feel free to ignore me and do what pleases you. Meanwhile, a lot of beginners haven't heard of the cabeceo, and since the title of the thread is "Advice for milonga participants", I'm going to keep giving what I think is good advice.
Finally, think what you want about me, but I'm not dogmatically evangelizing about this or any other code/rule. If I go to a milonga where it's not possible to do the cabeceo or the ladies aren't responding to it, then I'm not going to pout in the corner mumbling about how people are breaking the rules. It would be a little obtuse for anyone to do that, or to think that other people will do it. Of course I'm gonna start walking around asking ladies to dance (Rome and Romans). But if the reason they don't use the cabeceo where it is practical to do so is just that they don't know about it, then someone should raise their hand and say "Hey, there is a way to ask for and accept or reject dances non-verbally without even getting out of your chair; just so you all know".
Just as anyone can 'man up' at a bar and offer to buy a lady a drink, anyone can 'man up' and walk to a lady and ask for a dance at a milonga, but it doesn't make it classy. You'll be placing her in an awkward situation if for some reason she doesn't want to dance.
I've clearly stated (twice already, in fact), that the cabeceo can't be used all the time everywhere, especially here in the US; for various reasons, among them: dimly-lit venues, big halls, or the simple fact that dancers don't know about it and just look away or at the floor whenever there's eye contact. Precisely for that last reason, is why I'm posting about it here.
Again, you keep acting like I'm trying to irritate you by posting about the cabeceo even though you know and use it. Good on you that you do and that you can get dances without any problems. Feel free to ignore me and do what pleases you. Meanwhile, a lot of beginners haven't heard of the cabeceo, and since the title of the thread is "Advice for milonga participants", I'm going to keep giving what I think is good advice.
Finally, think what you want about me, but I'm not dogmatically evangelizing about this or any other code/rule. If I go to a milonga where it's not possible to do the cabeceo or the ladies aren't responding to it, then I'm not going to pout in the corner mumbling about how people are breaking the rules. It would be a little obtuse for anyone to do that, or to think that other people will do it. Of course I'm gonna start walking around asking ladies to dance (Rome and Romans). But if the reason they don't use the cabeceo where it is practical to do so is just that they don't know about it, then someone should raise their hand and say "Hey, there is a way to ask for and accept or reject dances non-verbally without even getting out of your chair; just so you all know".
More advice for milonga participants concerning eye-contact
Once again, this is addressed only to those dancers who haven't heard of this idea!
This is similar to the use of the cabeceo to get a dance, but this time it's to get into the line of dances without cutting people off or bumping into anyone.
If you find a partner after a tanda has started, and you want to enter the line, don't just dart into the ronda, cutting someone off. Ladies, wait for your partner to lead you onto the floor; don't just step into the line of dance. Gentlemen, get into an embrace with the lady off the floor, look at the guy that you would like to step in front of and make eye contact. Once eye contact is made, nod towards the floor to indicate that you would like to enter the ronda. Hopefully, everyone at the milonga is gracious and wants everyone else to have a good time, and so that leader will nod back at you and yield to you so you can enter the ronda with your partner. This simple act raises the level of the dancers' awareness to other dancers around them and greatly improves floorcraft.
Again, this might not be possible at milongas where no one applies it, but it's a very nice way to maintain a nice and efficient ronda. If you bring this idea up in classes and practicas, it might gain traction.
Once again, this is addressed only to those dancers who haven't heard of this idea!
This is similar to the use of the cabeceo to get a dance, but this time it's to get into the line of dances without cutting people off or bumping into anyone.
If you find a partner after a tanda has started, and you want to enter the line, don't just dart into the ronda, cutting someone off. Ladies, wait for your partner to lead you onto the floor; don't just step into the line of dance. Gentlemen, get into an embrace with the lady off the floor, look at the guy that you would like to step in front of and make eye contact. Once eye contact is made, nod towards the floor to indicate that you would like to enter the ronda. Hopefully, everyone at the milonga is gracious and wants everyone else to have a good time, and so that leader will nod back at you and yield to you so you can enter the ronda with your partner. This simple act raises the level of the dancers' awareness to other dancers around them and greatly improves floorcraft.
Again, this might not be possible at milongas where no one applies it, but it's a very nice way to maintain a nice and efficient ronda. If you bring this idea up in classes and practicas, it might gain traction.
I don't think it's the what, as much as the how (or the style of communication). I already mentioned this in a prior post and it didn't appear to be very well received by you (thus I prefer not to keep dwelling on it).
I have no issue with you or anyone else talking about the cabeceo, but I do tend to respond in a way that matches what is being dished out (again, not the what, but the how (or style). I think you called it snarky).
I honestly don't want this to be about me; what is important, though, is to have a good discussion. That said, if you are more concerned about the perceived tone of typed words, here's one scenario that would have actually been in line with your stated concern for tone.
If you had perceived my one-line suggestion for people to look up the cabeceo as condescending and out of tune with what you would like the tone of the discussion on this forum to be, you could have very easily said something along the lines of "This kind of curt sentence can be misconstrued as snarky and condescending. Perhaps you can explain in constructive terms what you mean". But you didn't. Being new at this forum, I realized that I had peeved people with what I thought was an innocent remark, so I tried to talk about it in more detail. You came back with responses projecting the kind of tone that you are accusing me of projecting; complete with sarcasm and jabs about my command of english (I'm a native speaker). I don't really mind it that much, but you can't simultaneously call for niceness while slicing and dicing people non-constructively.
Anyway, we can always agree to disagree and that is fine. Happy tango!
You are correct. I did not. FWIW, I made an assumption that you were doing it intentionally (possibly trolling, or maybe just rudeness). At some point I considered the possibility that my assumption was wrong, and it was unintentional. Thus I wondered about if it was a translation issue. Once that was ruled out, I went back to my first assumption.
In any case, I've often said, "you have to be thick skinned to post on internet forums", so I don't hold any grudges. I'll just chock it up as a misunderstanding, cause unknown.
:cheers:
Not as much as you might think... most of us have figured out ways of getting out of dancing with people we don't wish to dance with.
Dave Bailey
Active Member
Good to know. And BTW, that's not me being snarky, that's me being frivolous. You'll know if I get snarky.
I and others have written extensively on my site about the cabeceo in our area (London-based). Here's a small selection:
- Solving the London Cabeceo (and then a postscript article)
- The food chain
- More Cabeceo
- Getting more dances (and more getting more dances)
And I wouldn't assume that any of the regular posters here are unaware of either the traditional cabeceo or the problems with it, especially in other cultures.
Putting it simply, it only works well, when everyone uses it.
pascal
Active Member
Alternatively, just wait for the next song of the tanda and make use of the 15-second time where couples chat on the dancefloor before they go into the embrace. A tango is three min long, if you're in the middle of a song it is just one min or so of waiting, still much simpler than trying to enter a crowded flow. Plus, the off-the-floor and the on-the-floor separation is often just the fact that you're sitting or not on you chair.
Peaches
Well-Known Member
Yup. Given that the way to "get out of" dancing with someone is to say "No, thank you." it's really not that hard, or that awkward of a situation. Personally, given that I find eye contact to be a rather difficult thing, I find the cabeceo to be more awkward and uncomfortable. Nor do I think it's any less classy for a guy to walk up and ask than it is to use eye contact. Shrug.
If you reject a dance from one guy, do you feel obligated to sit out the tanda or would you accept a dance from another guy during the same tanda ?