All Corona related issues

Out of curiosity, how many of you believe that your instructor is “truly invested” in your dancing? If so, at what point in your study did that happen? (E.g., from the very first lesson, or as you prepared for your first showcase, or after the first comp at which you placed well, or after 3 years of lessons, etc.)
I'm fully certain of it in my case.

It's hard to say when it happened. Investing in her students is something my coach routinely does. Its just like @raindance said--she's the kind of person that just has that in her nature. It is one of the main reasons I have continued to work with her all this time: she invests in her students to the degree that they invest themselves, regardless of their talent or skill. She told me once that when my wife and I first showed up to learn a wedding dance, she thought we were a very nice couple that wouldn't go anywhere or accomplish anything as dancers. Regardless, she gave us just as much attention and care then as she does today, where we are one of the stronger competitive pairs on her team.

It can take time, of course, to learn someone's character, understand how they engage with things, and evaluate whether their passion is just a temporary fling or an enduring interest. You've kept quite focused through this difficult time, which speaks well of your dedication.

In short, your actions lately are exactly the kind of thing that could catch a teacher's attention. You've been at this such a short time that longevity alone wouldn't suffice. So while what you've written makes me suspect that IFP is they type who invests in everyone while Pro is not, you might well have made Pro take a second look at you. We'll have to see how he behaves once he has a full slate of students again.
 
At virtual lesson with IFP last night, she said she thinks I’m ready to start working with her husband, LDP (Long Distance Pro). Also, their studio is opening this week (with similar safety protocols to my local studio).

So...dun dun DUNNNNN.....I’m driving there on Memorial Day to have a double lesson in person with LDP. Very excited to meet them in person! IFP will still be involved in my learning progress; but as my actual dance partner, LDP will take over the lead role as my teacher.

That is, lead teacher/dance partner at THEIR studio. At my LOCAL studio, Pro is still my pro.

Speaking of whom...this evening I had a double lesson with Pro. We spent all of it on American waltz & tango. Waltz is good; my practicing plus my work with IFP means my own skills have improved...which means I’m partnering better, since I don’t have to rely on Pro to guide me thru each step, but can just follow his lead to “hear” what’s coming next (out of the extremely limited pool of figures I’ve learned, anyway). He even let me record a short video of us waltzing, so I can show my daughters that I actually do have a real teacher.

Tango was pretty awful. As bad as you’d expect after 2 months of no lessons. My solo practice in tango during this shutdown has been just going thru the motions - literally - to keep the rhythm & the handful of basic steps alive in my brain. But actually, I guess it wasn’t THAT awful. Each step had a rocky start, but once Pro refreshed it with me, the next try was much better.

Interestingly, the social-distance-dance-hold seems to be evaporating since last week. We spent most of the time apart or in practice hold, but we did spend a good bit of time in regular closed hold too. I suspect it’s because it’s easier to dance rhythm from a distance than smooth (at least, for a beginner). I’m not complaining. We both wore masks the whole time and vigorously washed our hands before and after the lesson. I have lessons with him again tomorrow and again the day after that...apparently I’m one of the few students he has who is willing to dance wearing a mask.

So far, the other students I’ve seen at the studio since it reopened are at least 10 years older than me, so their “more-at-risk” status based on age isn’t keeping them away.

After my lesson, Pro was helping me practice my Ukrainian (using only the limited vocabulary I’ve learned since March), when Studio Manager came into the small ballroom where my lesson was. He listened to the conversation then shook his head at me, saying, “you have way too much free time on your hands.” I gave him a wry smile & replied, “actually, I don’t.” Pro said, “no, that’s just what she does. This is how she does things.”

Ok, good. That’s something else he has paid attention to. He’s right: that IS how I do things. Get interested in something, invest lots of energy & focus on it, make it a mental priority, get good at it. Hopefully that m.o. will work for ballroom dance too.

One last note...the studio is offering a discount if you buy a block of lessons in the next 7 days: 15 lessons at 15% off the normal price. That’s a much better discount than they usually offer. BUT - I already have so many unused lessons that I don’t want to purchase more, and I fear that there will be another mandatory shutdown this winter, when the virus returns in full force (think Spanish flu). So my inclination at this time is to speed thru my prepaid lessons while the studio is open, and not buy any more for a very long time.


P.S. The amount I’ve paid to IFP for virtual lessons during this shutdown - and WOULD have paid to my local studio instead - is roughly the same amount as the price of the discounted lessons now being offered. It’s a shame my local studio refused to offer online lessons.
 
One last note...the studio is offering a discount if you buy a block of lessons in the next 7 days: 15 lessons at 15% off the normal price. That’s a much better discount than they usually offer. BUT - I already have so many unused lessons that I don’t want to purchase more, and I fear that there will be another mandatory shutdown this winter, when the virus returns in full force (think Spanish flu). So my inclination at this time is to speed thru my prepaid lessons while the studio is open, and not buy any more for a very long time.

P.S. The amount I’ve paid to IFP for virtual lessons during this shutdown - and WOULD have paid to my local studio instead - is roughly the same amount as the price of the discounted lessons now being offered. It’s a shame my local studio refused to offer online lessons.

I'm in a similar spot, in that I have a LOT of prepaid lessons in the coffer. I'm not planning to purchase more for a very long time. Especially with what has transpired with their response to the pandemic and the recent instructor turnover. This post sort of prodded me to realize that will probably happen at my studio soon too, i.e. pitches for discounted lessons. They always do it around the end of the year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it earlier this year. Especially since I think business (including students using existing pre-paid lessons) has been way down during this time - a month of being closed altogether, and many chose not to hop on the virtual lesson bandwagon.

The other pro I have been taking virtual lessons from is a bargain. I almost feel like she underpriced herself. I don't think I can afford to pay full price if/when she makes a return to her studio (since, before all this happened, I was set on lessons at my main studio).
 
At virtual lesson with IFP last night, she said she thinks I’m ready to start working with her husband, LDP (Long Distance Pro). Also, their studio is opening this week (with similar safety protocols to my local studio)......I’m driving there on Memorial Day to have a double lesson in person with LDP. Very excited to meet them in person!
It was wonderful finally meeting IFP and LDP in person! Great chemistry between all 3 of us. We had the entire studio to ourselves for almost the whole time, so even though LDP was officially in charge of the lesson, IFP chimed in regularly.

I arrived about 45 min early to change, stretch, warm up, & we went over a list of questions I had. (I also blatantly showed off my Ukrainian, which floored LDP...his wide-eyed reaction was very cute. But as I said to him, it’s too bad I can’t learn to dance as fast/well as I can learn to speak new languages [notice I said “to speak” - that’s different from understanding, writing, being fluent...my ear & tongue allow me to beautifully pronounce what I know, but I can only converse on the very limited subjects I’ve studied so far]. I admitted that the only practical use I’ve found for this ability is showing off, which made him laugh.)

The double lesson itself lasted 90 minutes, but I stayed for another 90+ minutes after that just talking with them. We discussed virtual vs in-person lessons; the difficulties of traveling for coaching (their own coach is in NY); comp participation and costs (their students pay a flat fee to them rather than a per-heat fee [!!!])... IFP delicately suggested that competing with LDP would be less expensive than competing with Pro, for several [accurate] reasons); and also enjoyed just general socializing. I tried on several different styles of shoes (Latin, Standard, practice) & brands (Supadance, Ray Rose, Paoul), & some Dance America practice wear, but nothing fit.

They reiterated that they are available to me for whatever I want/need: regular or occasional virtual lessons; regular or occasional in-person lessons; periodic random check-ins; help with concepts Pro is teaching me; competing (they emphasized that if I want to compete, it’s best not to wait till I’m “ready” to do so, since I will never believe that I am, and the longer I put it off, the less ready I will feel). In their own way, they were as charming & welcoming as the pros at my local studio.

They are both so young!!! IFP is only 29, and LDP is 33. That’s only a few years older than my own kids! But their expertise makes them seem much older, and in the videos and photos I’ve seen of their performances, they both look MUCH older when they put on the requisite comp hair/makeup/costumes. So I wouldn’t feel *utterly* ridiculous with LDP as my partner, although from a purely aesthetic viewpoint, I think I look much better with Pro (6 feet 2-3 inches and solid) than with LDP (6 feet and wiry). (And until my actual dance SKILLS are impressive, the way I LOOK on the floor will matter...no doubt more than it should.)

Ok, enough about all that. Let’s talk about the dancing itself. My thoughts & impressions, in no particular order:

1. They do Standard & Latin. They SAY they can teach Smooth & Rhythm, but it’s clearly an effort. They are much less familiar with them, were hesitant & questioning about some differences between the styles, & didn’t always know which figures/patterns were included in which levels. (This applies more to LDP than IFP.) However -
  • this only matters if I’m also studying smooth/rhythm elsewhere
  • these are things they can easily look up if they need to
  • a good teacher can TEACH these other styles even if they don’t DANCE them
But I can’t help comparing this to Pro, who effortlessly moves back & forth between all 4 styles & all 19 dances (he has several Standard/Latin students, even though he is teaching ME only smooth/rhythm), rattles off which figures go with which syllabus levels, can demonstrate pretty much any figure in any style from memory, etc. But he has at least 15-20 additional YEARS of teaching experience than they do, and he no longer competes professionally, so all his efforts go into teaching. So...not a fair comparison.

2. It is damn difficult to follow a new Lead when you’re a beginner! I know how to fit my body to Pro’s when he pulls my right hand to him. I can recognize small adjustments in Pro’s hand positions that signal what move is coming next. I can feel him take a deep breath to signal that our first waltz step is coming. LDP, otoh, starts the waltz with an entirely different lead-up to join our bodies together (and the 2-3” height difference between the 2 men makes it feel completely different); then starts with a hesitation step (which I’ve never learned); and gives different cues to tell me what’s coming next. (He finally just started saying them out loud in my ear: “step back on your right foot...forward on left foot...change step...back on left foot....”) Hopefully this would improve with time and practice.

3. In the Latin dancing, LDP had some great new descriptions/suggestions to help me coordinate the movements of my hips/torso/arms. This is similar to IFP’s ability to explain clearly to me some concept that Pro has talked about many times but I still haven’t gotten it. A new set of eyes and a new teaching vocabulary can be extremely helpful.

4. It felt like LDP wasn’t “dancing down” to my level, and I really liked that. It motivated me to step up my efforts to match his energy. Often, Pro will tone down his dancing with me, taking smaller steps, less rise & fall, using less exaggerated hip movements and foot swivels, etc., but idk why. I’m going to ask him about that at my next lesson.

TL;DR: working with IFP and LDP in person was every bit as good as I’d hoped, and if their studio were closer, I would seriously consider making a complete change to Standard/Latin with them. But right now, I’m just not good enough or experienced enough to be able to progress on my own...I need in-person lessons a lot more frequently than I can get from a studio that requires 4 hours of driving time per lesson. I’m also not good enough or experienced enough to successfully navigate the differences in teaching styles & partnering styles of two different Leads. So my current intention is to continue regular, frequent lessons with Pro, and supplement them with less frequent virtual lessons from IFP (& maybe an occasional one with LDP too).

Of course, these days, it’s hard to plan ahead more than a week or two. So who knows what will happen.
 
It's wonderful you had such a good experience! A couple thoughts from me....
...competing (they emphasized that if I want to compete, it’s best not to wait till I’m “ready” to do so, since I will never believe that I am, and the longer I put it off, the less ready I will feel).
I couldn't agree more with that stance. One of the best things you can do for your psychological approach to competition is to get to a point where competing feels familiar or even routine. The only way to do that is to do a bunch of reps, and the best time to start is always "now." Don't sweat the results at first--just enjoy (and examine) the experience.

...I wouldn’t feel *utterly* ridiculous with LDP as my partner, although from a purely aesthetic viewpoint, I think I look much better with Pro (6 feet 2-3 inches and solid) than with LDP (6 feet and wiry). (And until my actual dance SKILLS are impressive, the way I LOOK on the floor will matter...no doubt more than it should.)
Maybe Pro-Am is different, but I haven't found this to be the case as an Am-Am dancer. The way a couple moves is far more visible and compelling than how they "look together" at rest, even at the very lowest levels. Grooming and costumes matter a bit, but body types generally don't.

It is true that judges look for different things at each level. But those things will still be movement-related, even for the greenest newcomers.

1. They do Standard & Latin. They SAY they can teach Smooth & Rhythm, but it’s clearly an effort. They are much less familiar with them, were hesitant & questioning about some differences between the styles, & didn’t always know which figures/patterns were included in which levels. (This applies more to LDP than IFP.) However -
  • this only matters if I’m also studying smooth/rhythm elsewhere
  • these are things they can easily look up if they need to
  • a good teacher can TEACH these other styles even if they don’t DANCE them
If it were me, I wouldn't study Smooth/Rhythm with them. Not primarily, anyway.

I'm in a somewhat analogous situation. My coach is an International specialist, whose knowledge of Smooth is limited to what she studied for her ISTD certification. When I picked up Smooth, she found a Smooth expert for us to work with. She can still help us with basic technique in closed positions, which is shared across the disciplines; but open movement, choreography, and philosophical approach is left to the Smooth expert.

The short story is, I'd question the last bullet: that they could teach Smooth if they needed to. To make an analogy: you don't need to be a world champion in order to teach world champions, but you do need to have danced the style you're teaching. Knowledge and experience are distinct things, and both of them matter.

2. It is damn difficult to follow a new Lead when you’re a beginner! I know how to fit my body to Pro’s when he pulls my right hand to him. I can recognize small adjustments in Pro’s hand positions that signal what move is coming next. I can feel him take a deep breath to signal that our first waltz step is coming. LDP, otoh, starts the waltz with an entirely different lead-up to join our bodies together (and the 2-3” height difference between the 2 men makes it feel completely different); then starts with a hesitation step (which I’ve never learned); and gives different cues to tell me what’s coming next. (He finally just started saying them out loud in my ear: “step back on your right foot...forward on left foot...change step...back on left foot....”) Hopefully this would improve with time and practice.
It will definitely improve. There is always a learning curve in a new partnership, where you establish a "dialect" for how you communicate with one another. My experience is that this takes 4-6 months to become solid. Maybe less, if one or both of the dancers is highly skilled and experienced, but still a question of weeks of regular practice.

And that dialect continues to improve over time. My competition partner and I continue to add nuance to our communication even after two years of regular practice. Some of that is just individual skills improvement, but some of it is definitely specific to the things we do together.
 
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TL;DR: working with IFP and LDP in person was every bit as good as I’d hoped, and if their studio were closer, I would seriously consider making a complete change to Standard/Latin with them. But right now, I’m just not good enough or experienced enough to be able to progress on my own...I need in-person lessons a lot more frequently than I can get from a studio that requires 4 hours of driving time per lesson. I’m also not good enough or experienced enough to successfully navigate the differences in teaching styles & partnering styles of two different Leads. So my current intention is to continue regular, frequent lessons with Pro, and supplement them with less frequent virtual lessons from IFP (& maybe an occasional one with LDP too).
I think that's a good plan. It gains much of the benefit from working with the remote pros while not requiring you to adjust to two different leaders.
Maybe Pro-Am is different, but I haven't found this to be the case as an Am-Am dancer. The way a couple moves is far more visible and compelling than how they "look together" at rest, even at the very lowest levels. Grooming and costumes matter a bit, but body types generally don't.
How you look together matters while dancing, too.

I think maybe amateur couples tend to prioritize physical match more than in pro-am, and thus end up with better physical matches. In particular, pros don't turn people down for a poor physical match, while for students, teaching style and ability may overshadow the physical matching in a way that doesn't happen with amateur couples.

On a couple of occasions, I've worked with two pros at the same time, and both times got comments that I looked better with the pro who was a better physical match even when the other pro was a more experienced dancer and teacher and I felt that my dancing was better with that other pro. In one case I got videos with both pros at the same competition, and even I had to agree I looked better with the pro who was a better physical match, even though when I looked at technical details, I danced better with the pro who was not as good a physical match - and the pro who was a good physical match thought the other pro was a better dancer than she was too.
 
I think maybe amateur couples tend to prioritize physical match more than in pro-am, and thus end up with better physical matches. In particular, pros don't turn people down for a poor physical match, while for students, teaching style and ability may overshadow the physical matching in a way that doesn't happen with amateur couples.
....
I suddenly find this an extremely interesting question. I might even be a one-man case study, because I simultaneously have one partner I selected (competition partner) and another I did not (my wife). Their builds have basically nothing in common and we look very different together. As you'd expect from a selective process, competition partner is hands-down the better physical match for me with respect to things like arm length, hip height, sternum height, etc.

But to date, limited to Silver/early Gold, the "look" of each couple hasn't seemed to have much of an impact on our results. In fact, I judge that my wife and I have vastly outperformed our (relatively inferior) technical competence and "look," likely because of our personal chemistry and her amazing performance skills. But I'll now be thinking about this as I progress with each partner!
 
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"4. It felt like LDP wasn’t “dancing down” to my level, and I really liked that. It motivated me to step up my efforts to match his energy. Often, Pro will tone down his dancing with me, taking smaller steps, less rise & fall, using less exaggerated hip movements and foot swivels, etc., but idk why. I’m going to ask him about that at my next lesson."

Yeah I don't like it when my pros do that. If they are lazy with shorter smooth strides, I get lazy. I get it, I don't move as far, but the ideal is when your pro dance where they are pushing you. Not full out, but definitely not matching my level.

Also agree, do not learn smooth/rhythm from them. At some point you want to specialize anyways for competitions, so maybe smooth for Pro and latin for IFP, that for some reason seems to be a popular combo, but whatever you're most interested in.
 
I suddenly find this an extremely interesting question. I might even be a one-man case study, because I simultaneously have one partner I selected (competition partner) and another I did not (my wife). Their builds have basically nothing in common and we look very different together. As you'd expect from a selective process, competition partner is hands-down the better physical match for me with respect to things like arm length, hip height, sternum height, etc.

But to date, limited to Silver/early Gold, the "look" of each couple hasn't seemed to have much of an impact on our results. In fact, I judge that my wife and I have vastly outperformed our (relatively inferior) technical competence and "look," likely because of our personal chemistry and her amazing performance skills. But I'll now be thinking about this as I progress with each partner!
In my case the less well matched partners were, in one case, someone who was taller than me in her heels, and in the other case, someone who was a foot shorter in heels and thinner for her height. Is either of your partners out of those bounds?

You may also be underestimating your wife's technical ability. Personal chemistry does count for something, and performance skills are pretty important for the follower.
 
In my case the less well matched partners were, in one case, someone who was taller than me in her heels, and in the other case, someone who was a foot shorter in heels and thinner for her height. Is either of your partners out of those bounds?
No, not quite so extreme. My wife is 7 inches shorter in heels. In dance attire, her hip height is ~5 inches less than mine. Her arms are also proportionally short where mine are proportionally long, so when I'm careless about extending my frame horizontally it looks (and feels, she says) like I'm stretching her on the rack.
 
No, not quite so extreme. My wife is 7 inches shorter in heels. In dance attire, her hip height is ~5 inches less than mine. Her arms are also proportionally short where mine are proportionally long, so when I'm careless about extending my frame horizontally it looks (and feels, she says) like I'm stretching her on the rack.
She used to be 8 (or more) inches shorter? :P
 

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