Warren J. Dew
Forum Master
Wouldn't that make it better rather than worse? That would make it more convenient to cancel your appointment and deal with another stylist right there.
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- Thread starter ProgressNotPerfection
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Have you ever had your hair done at a comp? Hair/makeup vendors pretty much never have impromptu walk-in appointments available.
And the argument was about visibility... this was not a gigantic conference room, I suppose you could be like, make sure to face me the other way so I don't have to look at her, but I don't think someone else's client should be expected to take these types of measures. I know no one wants to assign value to the discomfort/awkwardness factor, but when you're all in a small space together, it really is a thing.
Warren J. Dew
Forum Master
I don't think the argument is primarily about visibility. People are objecting to the business provider having political pins or whatever, not the customers. I don't think most people would feel as strongly about other customers doing it.
fascination
Site Moderator
I am feeling like maybe I just have tough skin because honestly it would take more than the name of a politician on clothes to actually cause me discomfort to a degree that would be relevant. Now if they were mouthing off about it, I might feel like I needed to walk if they were disrespecting others ... i do think it is hard to change a hair appt but not impossible...i would likely power through it and move on accordingly
ProgressNotPerfection
Forum Master
But if they were wearing on their clothes the name of a politician whose beliefs and actions ran counter to your own deeply held convictions, would you ever use that stylist again, or recommend him/her to anyone else?
fascination
Site Moderator
Probably not..but it would have to be more than a minor political disagreement, it would have to be because I found supporting that person to be incompatible with basic human rights, safety etc
Whether I recommended them wouldn't so much have to do with my convinctions. I could tolerate the outfits-- but do think it's a bad choice for the comp hair dresser. But I have two good friends with wildly opposing views. One is very "pro X"; the other is "anti X". I would not recommend a hair dressed decked out in the "anti-X" views to the "proX friend, and opposite for the "anti X". These two have very strong views and would absolutely be fuming sitting in the chair. (If they didn't decided to just do the comp. with bad hair.)
If the hair dresser did good work and wore neutral clothes I'd recommend with either friend.
ProgressNotPerfection
Forum Master
And right there is, I think, the main point that many of us were trying to make. On the whole, it's better for the dance industry if people do NOT KNOW what any particular vendor's political views are (whether the vendor is a hairstylist, makeup artist, comp host, studio owner, or anything else).
fascination
Site Moderator
Sure...except no one is enforcing that at this time so people who feel inclined will. What would be ideal is probably virtually without debate... what is or isn't going to happen is another issue entirely...
Basically agree with this in that I would not have walked away from an appointment over it. Just for the sake of clarity wanted to say that I experienced no personal offense or discomfort when I happened to pass this person in a hallway. But I did notice, and it did strike me as a very odd choice given the importance of building client relationships in the personal grooming business. Also, most of us who dance pro-am arrive in that chair in the first place with no small amount of emotional turmoil - who needs another stressor? Most stylists I've worked with are attuned to this and make greatly appreciated efforts to relax their clients. Even if a stylist were decked out in regalia supporting a POV I agreed with I would probably avoid them in the future, because I would prefer not to go there mentally on one of the very few days of the year I get to experience the magic of dancing at a comp.
I guess I'm in the same minority.
But if recommending a strongly pro-x service provider to an anti-x potential customer I would include that fact in the recommendation. Then the potential customer could make up their mind.
There's a ballroom dance shoe store in my area whose owner is very politically opinionated. There were signs posted in the shop about political topics. I didn't totally disagree with the opinions, but the signs bothered me so much that I would go to the store only when I couldn't find the shoes I wanted at any other store. The thought of being forced to contemplate political topics while struggling to find the right shoe made me uncomfortable. The last time I went to the shop was over ten years ago. Those signs (again, just the signs, not the content of the signs) kept me from being a repeat customer ... for over ten years.
Dancing is, for me, a break from the real world. Any political statement too large or loud for me to easily ignore breaks my "dance bubble" and makes me cranky.
I readily engage in political discussion in the real world. I acknowledge that social media is part of the real world and dance professionals have just as much right to their opinions as anyone else.
I have not yet had to make a choice whether to purchase services from someone who disagrees with me politically so I don't know how I would react. But I am quite sure I do NOT want to deal with political opinions at a dance-related event.
Dancing is, for me, a break from the real world. Any political statement too large or loud for me to easily ignore breaks my "dance bubble" and makes me cranky.
I readily engage in political discussion in the real world. I acknowledge that social media is part of the real world and dance professionals have just as much right to their opinions as anyone else.
I have not yet had to make a choice whether to purchase services from someone who disagrees with me politically so I don't know how I would react. But I am quite sure I do NOT want to deal with political opinions at a dance-related event.
I'm not a lawyer, but not sure if they can prevail for discrimination based on political views. I think they can prevail for certain protected statuses (race, religion etc.)
But it's true that individuals are allowed to discriminate even on those things. If I don't want to be friends with "X" because they are "X", I don't have to be.
One problem for a business person is that even if technically someone can't win a suit for something, they might still file. You need to defend. And some people will believed you discriminated because they were "X" rather than because of their political views (or even just their personal obnoxiousness.)
For what it's worth, I think it's not fair for consumers to push their views onto business owners, their dance teachers, retail workers either. I wouldn't get all decked out in political paraphernalia to go to the hairdresser either. (My hair dresser has been known to "fire" clients for being obnoxious. We've both talked about what sorts of clients we "fire" and why!)
That depends on what 'xyz' is.
fascination
Site Moderator
when on a lesson, I have never initiated a political conversation...2 of the 4 pros I have had have been the sort who are inclined to talk about the issues of the day and have opinions but never to an extent that de-humanizes those who feel differently so I have always felt comfortable to weigh in if they initiate ...I certainly never prefer for anything that isn't dance related to dominate but thankfully have never felt uncomfortable