All Corona related issues

[Danceisjoy]

This would be the sentence in question. And it can be construed as "support me but if you disagree with me that is not fair."

A better way to say it would have been "Support is always welcome, disagreement is even welcome, but mean/negative comments are not fair."

You are right. It wasnt clear. What I should've said was 'negative comments about my experiences and humanity' are not fair.

I'm so, so sad.... More energy and discussion has gone into a sentence or maybe my lack of clarity in a sentence than the horrors of changing how I dance ballroom. (making sure I'm home before dark so I'm not pulled over and could be injured or shot to death). Just wow... The invisibility is, well sad.

Thank you all again for the topic to maybe share a little.

 

[raindance]

I appreciate this thread and support because me being able to share a little... can go a long way in my self expression as a dancer. (again my attempt to address and respect this thread) So I say thank you and intuition now tells me it's probably time to lurk again.

You need to do what is best for you (lurking vs posting). I personally hope you continue to find ways to share your dance journey here. I think it is important to hear different viewpoints. And in your case, to hear how a person who is in the minority in the dance community finds that affects their dance experience. You won't change everyone's view, but you may open the eyes of some who were unaware of the barriers you face, and the unfair treatment you sometimes receive.

You might also try posting some non-controversial things (dress choices, how your lessons are going, which shoes hurt your feet the least, which dance you love or are struggling with, etc) in various threads, to let us get to know you a bit better, and participate in a more neutral way. This might possibly be easier/less emotionally charged for you. And it may give you a chance to feel a different sort of support as a dancer. Up to you, of course.

A couple of notes -

1) Things can easily get misinterpreted on internet forums. When I read the phrase you wrote that seemed to provoke a reaction in some, I wasn't quite sure exactly what you meant, so I shrugged and didn't think much of it. Others interpreted it in various ways, which may or may not have been what you meant. My point is just that the potential for misinterpretation can lead to all sorts of arguments that might not have happened with in person conversation. I'm not making excuses for anyone. It's just something to keep in mind when reading and posting things.

2) Another aspect of potential misinterpretation on forums is context. Someone may hit a post button to reply to the general thread topic with their thoughts. This might come right after someone else's post, but the person posting might have been replying to the thread in general, and not to the person posting immediately before them (they may not have even read the whole thread or that post). Other times of course they are replying to what was said in recent previous posts. It's not always easy to tell the difference.

3) Also, if you find any poster is frustrating you, we have an ignore button. It's helpful for cases where you think a person may trigger you and you'd prefer not to be triggered and/or not to engage. You can ignore and unignore as needed. Even if you go back to lurking, this can be a helpful feature so that you can enjoy the content you want without reading the same arguments over and over with folks who upset you. (No doubt some have hit the ignore button on me - fair enough.)

Anyway, I hope you feel support from me. I have different challenges than you do (health issues in my case, for example, not racial discrimination). So please forgive me if I accidentally say the wrong thing. I haven't been in your shoes. But I wish you the best and wish fervently for improvement in how you are treated and how you are able to be in the world.

raindance

PS - I was typing while the last few posts went up, FWIW. And I do think that miscommunication was part of the issue at hand here. Sending hugs.

 

[Danceisjoy]

You need to do what is best for you (lurking vs posting). I personally hope you continue to find ways to share your dance journey here. I think it is important to hear different viewpoints. And in your case, to hear how a person who is in the minority in the dance community finds that affects their dance experience. You won't change everyone's view, but you may open the eyes of some who were unaware of the barriers you face, and the unfair treatment you sometimes receive.

You might also try posting some non-controversial things (dress choices, how your lessons are going, which shoes hurt your feet the least, which dance you love or are struggling with, etc) in various threads, to let us get to know you a bit better, and participate in a more neutral way. This might possibly be easier/less emotionally charged for you. And it may give you a chance to feel a different sort of support as a dancer. Up to you, of course.

A couple of notes -

1) Things can easily get misinterpreted on internet forums. When I read the phrase you wrote that seemed to provoke a reaction in some, I wasn't quite sure exactly what you meant, so I shrugged and didn't think much of it. Others interpreted it in various ways, which may or may not have been what you meant. My point is just that the potential for misinterpretation can lead to all sorts of arguments that might not have happened with in person conversation. I'm not making excuses for anyone. It's just something to keep in mind when reading and posting things.

2) Another aspect of potential misinterpretation on forums is context. Someone may hit a post button to reply to the general thread topic with their thoughts. This might come right after someone else's post, but the person posting might have been replying to the thread in general, and not to the person posting immediately before them (they may not have even read the whole thread or that post). Other times of course they are replying to what was said in recent previous posts. It's not always easy to tell the difference.

3) Also, if you find any poster is frustrating you, we have an ignore button. It's helpful for cases where you think a person may trigger you and you'd prefer not to be triggered and/or not to engage. You can ignore and unignore as needed. Even if you go back to lurking, this can be a helpful feature so that you can enjoy the content you want without reading the same arguments over and over with folks who upset you. (No doubt some have hit the ignore button on me - fair enough.)

Anyway, I hope you feel support from me. I have different challenges than you do (health issues in my case, for example, not racial discrimination). So please forgive me if I accidentally say the wrong thing. I haven't been in your shoes. But I wish you the best and wish fervently for improvement in how you are treated and how you are able to be in the world.

raindance

PS - I was typing while the last few posts went up, FWIW. And I do think that miscommunication was part of the issue at hand here. Sending hugs.

Thank you, and appreciate your support. I totally get the 'perfection in communication' , thing. It's so hard to sad that the sentence triggers more than the horrors of a person's life. Well my bad, I lurked for a reason. lol it's all good though. Maybe will see you on a different thread.

 

[lucia_l]

So far I've just not responded or reacted, but given that she's not taking the hint, I'm starting to wonder if I need to say something when it happens again

I'd say probably no.... no... no..... Except for some special circumstances, acquaintances who keep making pointed remarks when you clearly are avoiding the issue should be ignored for. ever. and. ever. You could air your disagreement but it probably won't be worth it.

 

[lucia_l]

... If the teacher is out of the studio quarantined, I can see how the reason for his being out of the studio might be considered private, ...

If I got a call tomorrow suddenly cancelling my lessons next week and no reason was given, I'd suspect Covid quarantine. Sadly, right now, nearly any illness will tend to be "suspected Covid". The list of symptoms is long and overlaps cold, flu, allergies. . .

 

[Danceisjoy]

No one was triggered. It takes time within an established community for everyone to get familiar with a new poster’s style of communication. And I don’t think that members here asking for clarification or teasing out the meaning behind your words overshadows the horrors you experience daily.

It doesn't take my sadness and disappointment away. Syntax was the focus of me posting after 5 years of lurking rather than content of experiences that impact some of the dancers in a painful way. But now I understand the community.

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

The very nature of this topic signaled I was maybe free to share the impact of politics/policies as I felt safe to do so.

Exactly! As you should be!

More energy and discussion has gone into a sentence or maybe my lack of clarity in a sentence than the horrors of changing how I dance ballroom.... The invisibility is, well sad.

It’s beyond sad. It’s shameful. And you’re handling it much more graciously than I am.

I am appalled.

At first, I was unhappy yesterday at what I perceived as implied criticism toward Danceisjoy’s position, but I thought maybe I was reading into it something that wasn’t there. When Danceisjoy replied to defend herself, I realized that she had perceived the same thing I had, so I posted my support. This morning, I was disgusted to see that someone else (ironically, a white male) had not only put words in her mouth that she didn’t say, but then even criticized her for those words! So I again posted my support.

Now this evening, there are more reply posts, and I am very sad and angry and tired after reading them - and I am WHITE! Can any of you imagine how much MORE sad and angry and tired (and scared and rejected and hopeless) someone in Danceisjoy’s position must be feeling by now?

After having one member put words in her mouth, DF has now also suggested to a member who has JUST recently begun posting after 5 years, that there are “better ways to say” something and that maybe she should think about posting “non-controversial things” in other threads.
Doesn’t anyone else hear how that sounds?
Doesn’t anyone else worry about the subtext behind the surface attempts to soften the advice?
Doesn’t anyone else think that is important?
Isn’t anyone else brave enough to speak up?

But now I understand the community.

I guess now I do too.
And I am very, very sorry.

 

[fiesta0618]

After having one member put words in her mouth, DF has now also suggested to a member who has JUST recently begun posting after 5 years, that there are “better ways to say” something and that maybe she should think about posting “non-controversial things” in other threads.
Doesn’t anyone else hear how that sounds?
Doesn’t anyone else worry about the subtext behind the surface attempts to soften the advice?
Doesn’t anyone else think that is important?

Yes, very much yes, and yes.

I'm sorry, @Danceisjoy.

 

[IndyLady]

It doesn't take my sadness and disappointment away. Syntax was the focus of me posting after 5 years of lurking rather than content of experiences that impact some of the dancers in a painful way. But now I understand the community.

I agree. I'm generally far from the most perceptive person in the room, but I knew what you meant, and I believe so should any reasonably intelligent person. I personally think there's still a lot of denial that experiences like what you describe are true and valid, but it's not as acceptable to say that directly, so other lines of attack are utilized.

 

[Danceisjoy]

Exactly! As you should be!

It’s beyond sad. It’s shameful. And you’re handling it much more graciously than I am.

I am appalled.

At first, I was unhappy yesterday at what I perceived as implied criticism toward Danceisjoy’s position, but I thought maybe I was reading into it something that wasn’t there. When Danceisjoy replied to defend herself, I realized that she had perceived the same thing I had, so I posted my support. This morning, I was disgusted to see that someone else (ironically, a white male) had not only put words in her mouth that she didn’t say, but then even criticized her for those words! So I again posted my support.

Now this evening, there are more reply posts, and I am very sad and angry and tired after reading them - and I am WHITE! Can any of you imagine how much MORE sad and angry and tired (and scared and rejected and hopeless) someone in Danceisjoy’s position must be feeling by now?

After having one member put words in her mouth, DF has now also suggested to a member who has JUST recently begun posting after 5 years, that there are “better ways to say” something and that maybe she should think about posting “non-controversial things” in other threads.
Doesn’t anyone else hear how that sounds?
Doesn’t anyone else worry about the subtext behind the surface attempts to soften the advice?
Doesn’t anyone else think that is important?
Isn’t anyone else brave enough to speak up?


I guess now I do too.
And I am very, very sorry.

THANK YOU!! And bless you for sharing and being brave enough to speak up for me. If I never meet you in my life, please know I am grateful you understood me, saw me, saw the invisible pain. I somehow thought this community was connected and bonded through our love of dance no matter where we come from. I do understand this community and how 'dismissed' my honest and carefully phrased experiences of pain were. You were appalled. I gave up, it's not safe here but oh how much I love what you did. If you dance as honestly and bravely as you dared to speak for me, you must be a powerhouse of a dancer, and glorious. Hugs!

 

[raindance]

So, my own post, about miscommunication, was misunderstood. I guess I am a case in point. I was trying to be helpful, and apparently failed spectacularly. Mea culpa. Please forgive me.

I fully believe and understand (to the extent that I can, not being in her shoes) what she has posted about facing horrific discrimation, and fearing for driving at night, and how being black has affected her dance experience. And I think it's awful, and I wish I knew how to fix it. Not just for her, but for everyone facing any or all of that and more. I think everyone should be treated well and feel safe participating in work, hobbies and other parts of life, regardless of the color of their skin or any other distinguishing feature (sex, primary language spoken, and many other other things). That was true before today's posts, and is still true now, however poorly I've expressed it.

And yet, when I first read the post by Danceisjoy that became part of all the angst in this discussion thread today, I didn't fully understand what she meant by that sentence, who it referred to etc, at the time it was posted. I had already posted support for Danceisjoy previously. I tried to do so again today, hoping that some of the discussion had indeed been a misunderstanding by other posters.

I don't know what individual people were thinking when they posted, so I don't know if that's the case or not, or if people were intentionally trying to be dismissive of her experience or what. I was hoping for the best in everyone's intent. And I was trying to encourage Danceisjoy to keep posting and not give up on our community because of a possible misunderstanding.

By discussing possible miscommunication issues, I was in no way trying to blame Danceisjoy for the miscommunication, if one had/has occurred. Nor was I trying to minimize the horrors or challenges of her experience. I was trying to help her. It didn't work.

Again, I'm sorry. I'm not sure what else to say.

 

[Danceisjoy]

I agree. I'm generally far from the most perceptive person in the room, but I knew what you meant, and I believe so should any reasonably intelligent person. I personally think there's still a lot of denial that experiences like what you describe are true and valid, but it's not as acceptable to say that directly, so other lines of attack are utilized.

I thought the forum was glued and bonded by our love of ballroom. Sigh! As I said, I understand the community and thank you for speaking up for me. I appreciate it.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

ironically, a white male

Wrong.

I'm no more white than President Obama is. In fact, I can remember drinking out of a "coloreds" drinking fountain in the 1960s.

I didn't believe in white privilege until now, but your post reeks of it.

 

[Danceisjoy]

So, my own post, about miscommunication, was misunderstood. I guess I am a case in point. I was trying to be helpful, and apparently failed spectacularly. Mea culpa. Please forgive me.

I fully believe and understand (to the extent that I can, not being in her shoes) what she has posted about facing horrific discrimation, and fearing for driving at night, and how being black has affected her dance experience. And I think it's awful, and I wish I knew how to fix it. Not just for her, but for everyone facing any or all of that and more. I think everyone should be treated well and feel safe participating in work, hobbies and other parts of life, regardless of the color of their skin or any other distinguishing feature (sex, primary language spoken, and many other other things). That was true before today's posts, and is still true now, however poorly I've expressed it.

And yet, when I first read the post by Danceisjoy that became part of all the angst in this discussion thread today, I didn't fully understand what she meant by that sentence, who it referred to etc, at the time it was posted. I had already posted support for Danceisjoy previously. I tried to do so again today, hoping that some of the discussion had indeed been a misunderstanding by other posters.

I don't know what individual people were thinking when they posted, so I don't know if that's the case or not, or if people were intentionally trying to be dismissive of her experience or what. I was hoping for the best in everyone's intent. And I was trying to encourage Danceisjoy to keep posting and not give up on our community because of a possible misunderstanding.

By discussing possible miscommunication issues, I was in no way trying to blame Danceisjoy for the miscommunication, if one had/has occurred. Nor was I trying to minimize the horrors or challenges of her experience. I was trying to help her. It didn't work.

Again, I'm sorry. I'm not sure what else to say.

No worries. I do understand.

Not asking for anyone here to change anything, but I just thought it would be a safer place. Although others took issue with my synyax, I did tie my concerns it into my dancing and honored the thread as best I could posting my first time.
I'm just tired.....

 

[raindance]

No worries. I do understand.

Not asking for anyone here to change anything, but I just thought it would be a safer place. Although others took issue with my synyax, I did tie my concerns it into my dancing and honored the thread as best I could posting my first time.
I'm just tired.....

Thank you for your understanding. I wish I knew how to help.

raindance