Are followers in smaller communities pickier?

[itwillhappen]

We have about five or six good leads if they are all present and frequently have twice as many follows. So do the math, I have to work hard to get to a tanda with one or two of the good leads. Especially cuze I have white hair and some of the leads will dance with any young woman regardless of her ability

I don't think it has much to do with math. If there were suddenly fifty or sixty good leads, then I suppose you'd be even less inclined to "give away" your tandas.
If you have a long and expensive trip and aren't satisfied with the quality of dancing, then it's simply not your job to coach beginners, let bored locals do that.

 

[Brummbaer]

I suspect that the situation in Europe – where, to Canadian eyes, the distances between towns are minuscule and it seems like every bit of land is settled – isn't like what I described above. So, please look at my earlier post through my eyes:

Whilst there's are metropolises, and in some European countries you can see similar separation as in Canada, it's more of a sprawl with interconnected (but sometimes poor transport) between towns and villages. We talk of, say, 'London' tango, but that was once a collection of villages/towns around a hub with green spaces and farming in-between. There's probably few tango centres in the actual centre (space is too expensive). Elsewhere in that 'sprawl', any milonga is likely to be in some cheaper village hall rather than in the metropolitan centre giving the name. Decent, cheap, public transport may, or may not, exist.

who seem to be able to find a good level of tango a short, inexpensive drive or train ride away? (The equivalent here being c. 5 hours and 250€.)

'inexpensive' is a relative term relating to overall country 'wealth', and to the participants. London has a workable public transport system, but expensive accommodation. 3-4 hours there and the same return, with overnight accommodation might set you back 400€. Other countries vary!

But travelling is part of AT! I suppose the most we do is 150km to a 'small' community milonga, coupled with some of 80km. But that's by car (EV) and within return range. In any case, I prefer going, or staying, north rather than to London. Nothing accessible by public transport - even the occasional milonga 5km away.

 

[itwillhappen]

Smaller communities are pickier about years of experience, because everybody knows everybody else, and how long they've known each other is the tribal litmus test for inclusion.

An interesting thought, but being "picky" is still a luxury one has to be able to afford. And it's much more promising when you have a wide choice of dance partners.

In practice, I've never had problems at small milongas. However, I'm usually just passing through on my way to or from a "serious" event. Dancing and even sitting at a small milonga is in that case usually more pleasant than sitting alone in my campervan.

 

[JournalInTime]

it's more of a sprawl with interconnected (but sometimes poor transport) between towns and villages.

Interesting. I remember my last visit home to show my girlfriend my region . . . We actually had a 2h 40m drive along a highway with nothing but abandoned barns and trees before finding coffee. Another drive, one we do more often, involves more like 1h 20m of same. And those are the "crowded" parts of Canada. The west and north can involve an entire afternoon of nothing.

But travelling is part of AT!

I suppose. I don't travel much for AT because I have all the AT I could want in my city. I have studios 5 and 10 minutes away by foot (the Mundial qualifier being at the 10-minute place), two others 30 minutes away by foot, etc.; a choice of events every day (well, Monday is a bit slow); and visiting maestros in town at all times (Brazilian champ Mario Sergio is here right now, Pablo Verón is coming soon, and a couple of others have taken up temporary residence). Even if my budget supported tango travel, which it doesn't, I'd have to ask, "Why?"

In practice, I've never had problems at small milongas.

Neither have I. An advantage of coming from a place with lots of instruction and practice, and a regional reputation as a "tango center," is that I can show up at a tiny, tiny milonga with <20 couples, say where I'm from, and dance. I could be terrible, of course, but they extend me the benefit of the doubt as capable.

 

[opendoor]

..actually had a 2h 40m drive along a highway with nothing but abandoned barns and trees before finding coffee. Another drive, one we do more often, involves more like 1h 20m of same. And those are the "crowded" parts of Canada. The west and north can involve an entire afternoon of nothing..

Your distances are objective values, but in Europe, distances feel subjectively just as far. But my point was that tango actually is a dance of the metropolises, back then of the precariat, today carried by singles, newcomers, and students. Anyone who wants to dance in the countryside and small towns goes to ballroom socials. Tango can't establish there because the social structure is completely different.

..don't travel much for AT because I have all the AT I could want in my city. I have studios 5 and 10 minutes away by foot (the Mundial qualifier being at the 10-minute place), two others 30 minutes away by foot, etc.; a choice of events every day..

Then our cities are quite similar. We have 1.8 million inhabitants within the city limits and 4 million including the surrounding area. This results in 8 milongas a week.

..Even if my budget supported tango travel, which it doesn't, I'd have to ask, "Why?"

I didn't write tango travel, rather the other way around. When I travel alone, I look for connections and check if there are tango dancers or improv actors around in the area. Both communities are very similar in their sociological structure, and you're immediately integrated. And should you end up in northern Germany, I also expect you to text me!

 

[Bailango]

I suppose. I don't travel much for AT because I have all the AT I could want in my city. I have studios 5 and 10 minutes away by foot (the Mundial qualifier being at the 10-minute place), two others 30 minutes away by foot, etc.; a choice of events every day (well, Monday is a bit slow); and visiting maestros in town at all times (Brazilian champ Mario Sergio is here right now, Pablo Verón is coming soon, and a couple of others have taken up temporary residence). Even if my budget supported tango travel, which it doesn't, I'd have to ask, "Why?"

Isn’t this true of metro centers with sizeable tango community.

I am surprises at number of studios. Are these tango studios or those rented by tango instructors on hourly basis?

We have lost a lot of dance studios to gentrification. That isn’t anything specific to AT.

We have multiple instructors visiting any given week. Locally there are at least two dozen AT instructors. May be more.

An advantage of coming from a place with lots of instruction and practice, and a regional reputation as a "tango center," is that I can show up at a tiny, tiny milonga with <20 couples, say where I'm from, and dance. I could be terrible, of course, but they extend me the benefit of the doubt as capable.

Yes agree.

 

[Brummbaer]

Anyone who wants to dance in the countryside and small towns goes to ballroom socials. Tango can't establish there because the social structure is completely different.

Whilst I'd agree with the generality that it can't establish, it's sometimes surprising. Ballroom also loses interest. I'm always surprised by the number of people from obscure and remote parts of Scotland, or from the other side of the country, who sometimes turn up at milongas - even in northern England. I think the most notable was the lady who needed a ferry to get across some loch in order to travel to get to a milonga - and a few hours by train to get to a metropolis. I also recollect the couple we met on a course who taught a small class in some obscure village.

However you're correct about 'establishing'. These are exceptions. AT required the metropolis of BsAs as its catalyst, although we shouldn't forget that milonga campera. @JournalInTime has already described this in Canada.

 

[Rabbit]

We talk of, say, 'London' tango, but that was once a collection of villages/towns around a hub with green spaces and farming in-between. There's probably few tango centres in the actual centre (space is too expensive).

Transport connectivity is very important in large cities. Many central London milongas really are central (near major train stations or in the West End), the ones out in the suburbs draw a more local clientele

 

[Miradamiranda]

being "picky" is still a luxury one has to be able to afford. And it's much more promising when you have a wide choice of dance partners.

I agree. If you only have 1-3 events per month and not many potential partners, you make the most of what’s available.

 

[Miradamiranda]

My first many years of tango was in a small city, but it had some dedicated somewhat decent dancers, a decent crowd, and an excellent teacher who people came to see regularly from big cities several hours away. And these cities 2-3 hours away had decent events we carpooled to. We had a practilonga every week and 1 milonga a month, and for a while -twice a month- we had a lovely casual after work hang in the back room of a restaurant where we’d take turns putting on our playlists, drink wine, socialize and feel we belonged to a tribe.
I was happy with my tango life, but once I started daring to go to milongas in big cities while traveling for work, I learned a) the level was much higher and b) I realized that I wasn’t that bad a dancer after all.
Then Covid happened and the scene hasn’t recovered. People moved away. Studios closed. People aged out and why would young people get into it if they have nowhere to dance. I now live half time in a scene I adore, but have to be back in that small town for 6 months a year for a few more years. I’ve been back a month already, and the first small practica has been announced 3 weeks from now…. Ughhh
Anyhow, over the years I’ve seen as soon as a fresh face appears, people go out of their way to make them feel welcome.

 

[JournalInTime]

I am surprises at number of studios. Are these tango studios or those rented by tango instructors on hourly basis?

They are almost all tango studios, with tango art and shoe shops and all that sort of stuff. Some rent their space to other events when there's no tango, but they are tango studios first and foremost. There's just a single exception that I know of.

 

[Bailango]

They are almost all tango studios, with tango art and shoe shops and all that sort of stuff. Some rent their space to other events when there's no tango, but they are tango studios first and foremost. There's just a single exception that I know of.

That’s amazing. I can think of only one dedicated tango studio. The owner is neither an instructor nor an organizer. I don’t think he is a tango dancer. He has kept the studio running for over 20 years. Moving it to a new place when the original was lost to gentrification. Many art places and dance studios fell victim to it. I still can’t think of any dedicated tango studio other than this when things were far better.

Given very high cost to lease space and very high cost of living, I don’t think an instructor can afford to lease or own dedicated tango studio. Not when he/she has to compete with over two dozen local instructors plus slew of highly recognized visiting instructors.

Unless cost of living and rental space is low, I don’t know how the dedicated tango studios can make ends meet.

 

[Gaiatango]

You assume that dancing in general, and tango in particular, is just as attractive to men in your social circle as it is to women, and that they're equally willing to put in the effort. But that's not the case, which is why there are only half as many men there.

Of course, you can always continue to improve your dancing skills, but it's a (hopefully) voluntary leisure activity. If the environment isn't appealing to you personally - considering all(!) factors - then you'll stop going sooner or later anyway. Therefore, I agree with Steve's advice: "Go where the grass is greener." This could also be a tango workshop weekend in a nice city with a nice lady.

I would simply circumvent events that I still find thoroughly unfriendly after two or three visits, perhaps going again after six months.

If the behaviour is consistent that the followers are 'unfriendly' I suggest he look at himself, and perhaps in particular his clothing, grooming and oral health and hygiene. AS a 5'3" follow, my head is sometimes level with your mouth and your armpits.
Another suggestion might be that this beginner lead only cabeceo a follow on the third song of a tanda.. Someone who is still sitting. That way the follow would perhaps be more tolerant and also not stuck with him for whole tanda. In my experience most followers are willing to dance with beginner leads, in particular, because there are fewer leads and we want to bring them along, how else can a small tango community grow? And I am reminded that we were all beginners once.

 

[Gaiatango]

I could see that!

However, how well it works depends on the size and culture of the smaller places. I live in Canada, where "small" can mean 200-400 people an hour or two along an empty highway from anything bigger. If you find tango there – which you might, because people from cities or who have traveled sometimes retire to such places – it's a couple of people who drive to the slightly bigger place, along with a couple of people from 5 or 10 other small places, a few times a year. I suspect that is far from the situation you are talking about!

This suggests a very different situation from what I'm talking about. For one thing, it means you have a way of announcing yourself! I've been in places where there's no way to know there is tango until you're at the only café in a one-hour driving radius and someone overhears you say "tango." Certainly, you won't stay with anybody until you've already made contacts.

I suspect that the situation in Europe – where, to Canadian eyes, the distances between towns are minuscule and it seems like every bit of land is settled – isn't like what I described above. So, please look at my earlier post through my eyes:

Here, tango largely lives in cities of 2,000,000+ people, with a modest presence in medium-sized cities in the 400,000+ range, and a few tiny communities in small cities the 100,000+ range. Mostly, you dance in cities, not towns, much less villages or hamlets. With the distances involved, it takes enough time and money to move between these that you'll probably favor the bigger places, as there will be more to do than dance.

And did I mention that I'm envious of Europeans, who seem to be able to find a good level of tango a short, inexpensive drive or train ride away? (The equivalent here being c. 5 hours and 250€.)

You can announce yourself by contacting the host for the event usually through their FB page. I have done this several times successfully in addition to finding a billet with a local. I actually live in a village but drive 96 km once or twice a week to tango. I stay overnight. I also host out-of-town regional instructors for weekend workshops. In my 'city' of 9,000 I frequently get about 30 people out for the weekend. Emphasis on regionall instructors as ones from Argentine are a bit out of our league and also the cost would be prohibitive. (for me as organizer and also to pass it on to the local tango communiity.)

 

[JournalInTime]

Given very high cost to lease space and very high cost of living, I don’t think an instructor can afford to lease or own dedicated tango studio.

Well, if "studio" means "an instructor's business," that explains the difference! It doesn't mean that at all around here.

Here, a tango studio is a place that holds classes, prácticas, and milongas every week of the year, overseen by a team of several instructors and organizers. Fees for those things pay much of the rent, but on top of that, the instructors pay fees to use the studio for private lessons (which they recoup from their students), and advanced dancers pay fees to use the studio for private practice, choreography rehearsals, and so on. Moreover, there are regular workshops with local and visiting teachers, which have a high buy-in. And there are side-gigs, like the bar at the milonga, or a shoe-and-clothing boutique that rents a back room. Finally, every studio with its own space rents that out when there are no classes, prácticas, milongas, private lessons, private practices, or workshops going on . . . for anything from art shows to events for other dance styles to yoga to martial-arts lessons.

It probably helps that just about all of these studios are in lofts in not-so-exciting parts of town, or in suites above or basements below bigger businesses. We aren't talking about fancy, street-level studios with big signs and huge windows! We're talking about overly hot or cold places with exposed concrete and pipes and wires.