That's just the follower learning curve. All other things being equal, it is inherently faster and plateaus out faster. Therefore the dynamic is unstable.
Are followers in smaller communities pickier?
- Thread starter brujo
- Start date
That's just the follower learning curve. All other things being equal, it is inherently faster and plateaus out faster. Therefore the dynamic is unstable.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
Yes, of course. And both have advantages and disadvantages that more or less exclude each other. Just go to the events where you feel comfortable and can dance well.
sure, it’s easier for followers to go from beginner to intermediate than leads. But from intermediate to advanced isn’t as straightforward, especially depending on how you define advanced.
all the followers that i know that were able to go from beginner to advanced in a short time frame were basically pro ballet/modern dancers.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
Of course, there will be valid reasons, especially if the lessons are of no benefit for followers.
But this thread is about relative beginners and a gender imbalance of 1:2. So it's reasonable to ask.
Well, I don't see why this would be any more straightforward for leaders.
i feel as lead there’s a whole checklist of things to “master” going from intermediate to advanced, such as just knowing how to lead certain movements from different positions and with a different variety of followers, as one example at least (not saying that’s all there is to being advanced). For followers there’s a lot more grey area in how to improve to the next level. I would say it’s less about only following but being active and adding to the dance.
opendoor
Forum Master
Your perception doesn't match my experience at all. But perhaps that's how it works in smaller communities, where students are more at the mercy of the few teachers. In metropolises, the 'checklist' isn't defined technically. It's about visibility, coolness, popularity, networking among the guys, and attractiveness among girls. At least that's how it was a quarter of a century ago when I started tango. But maybe things are different nowadays, and maybe NYC isn't NYC anymore today.
Last edited:
i mean your experience is an outlier compared to most in this forum (having an extremely welcoming milonga as a day 1 beginner lead, learning at the milonga, thinking salsa is harder, etc).
Also i’m talking about the skill set to be an advanced leader whereas you’re talking about the image/perception.
brujo
Well-Known Member
Granted the on2 salsa scene in NYC is not the friendliest, so that might be the one scenario where learning salsa has a much steeper curve than tango simply because there are already so many good dancers and the competition for follows is super steep.
opendoor
Forum Master
However, I'm not an outsider in my world, and I'm the only one posting here from my peer group and cohort. Haven't you noticed that DF doesn't represent the scene outside? And I'm also an outsider in that I can't dance for more than half an hour at most. Of course, I'm looking for ways to compensate.
But this is a systemic problem with teaching really. The mechanics of doing step X, which is all you'll get from tango teachers, won't get you past the intermediate level which most people including the teachers are stuck at. What makes a good dancer is WHY you are doing X instead of Y or Z in a particular context and what you are using it to express (applies both to followers and leaders.)
I thought it was about criteria of going from intermediate to advanced.
Above is true in tango and every other facet of life. However it doesn’t have anything to do with intermediate to advance progression.
It still isn’t steeper learning curve in NYC for on2 relative to Tango. If you think NYC lacked friendliness to male beginners you know nothing about late nineties salsa in LA.
I know many who started dancing in both cities. I have danced in NYC both as a beginner and later as experienced salsa dancer when visiting.
Sure and I think a lot of that is innate musical/dance abilities.
I see a lot of beginner/intermediate leads in my scene with even a wider vocabulary than me, but their fundamentals are bad so nothing flows and they’re just throwing random movements out irrespective to the music.
brujo
Well-Known Member
I danced in the Bay Area and as an experienced salsa dancer the gender ratios were just atrocious. To get any floor time meant aggressively asking for a dance, which is much harder for a beginner. However I think a beginner tango crowd is going to be different than a beginner salsa crowd that goes to see Josie Neglia or Liquid Silver Espinoza at the Mayan. After pausing salsa for a while for tango, it was a lot more noticeable going to a salsa bar or bachata social and seeing all the men just loitering around waiting to ask someone to dance.