Are followers in smaller communities pickier?

I danced in the Bay Area and as an experienced salsa dancer the gender ratios were just atrocious.
It is atrocious no matter what your level is :)

Tango too tends towards being leader heavy. Personally counseled tango dancers who found El V very intimidating and a few followers who said they actually cried after going home. Never heard anything like that from salsa dancers.
 
It still isn’t steeper learning curve in NYC for on2 relative to Tango. If you think NYC lacked friendliness to male beginners
The on2 scene in nyc is where I got hooked on dancing. (Remark, that was 20 years ago.) As a follower, very dedicated, with very good teachers, I got to dance a lot right away even with decent leaders. I didn’t think much of gender ratios then, because I was not disadvantaged, (just like a lot of men don’t think much about what the actual ratios are in tango), so no wonder I had such a hard time when I switched to tango.

With that, I mean having a hard time learning. Because how am I going to get better if I can’t get to dance more, not to speak of actually getting into events that are gender balanced, blocking many new followers from attending.
 
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Interesting stories are in this thread!

Thanks to all authors. Please continue if you still have experiences to share.
 
Sure and I think a lot of that is innate musical/dance abilities.
I see a lot of beginner/intermediate leads in my scene with even a wider vocabulary than me, but their fundamentals are bad so nothing flows and they’re just throwing random movements out irrespective to the music.
This happens when a student doesn't change teachers often enough. Then the student simply projects the typically sequence-oriented lesson content onto the social dance floor. No one will blame them for this, because it's precisely this environment that creates such students. A student only leaves their beginner status behind when they discard everything they've learned in the first two years, adopt a completely new perspective, and reinvent themselves. And this should be repeated several times in their career.
 
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This happens when a student doesn't change teachers often enough. Then the student simply projects the typically sequence-oriented lesson content onto the social dance floor. No one will blame them for this, because it's precisely this environment that creates such students. A student only leaves their beginner status behind when they discard everything they've learned in two years, adopt a completely new perspective, and reinvent themselves.
Changing teachers isn't always a possibility in small communities. There aren't the options available unless you can travel. You're right that it seems to take maybe 2 years. Then you may be dissatisfied, or want to show your skills to a wider world - to find that you weren't that good, or there are other options available, or start to research more...
 
Changing teachers isn't always a possibility in small communities...
A change doesn't have to involve a hard break: it's about a shift in perspective. Since the pandemic, there have been many online courses. Most beginners are encountering new teachers on tango vacations. The offerings there are very diverse and led by highly experienced teachers. The advantage is that you don't have to break up with your teacher at home in your small community. After three years, I went on my first tango vacation and learned a lot. And after the tango vacation, the next step is attending an international festival. Even the stars offer beginner workshops there. One last suggestion: you can also achieve a shift in perspective through other forms of movement: Alexander Technique, ballet, contact improvisation, swing...
 
One last suggestion: you can also achieve a shift in perspective through other forms of movement: Alexander Technique, ballet, contact improvisation, swing...
If you’re lucky and have guest instructors from abroad you are often exposed to some of their different forms integrated into tango too. In just the last 3 months I learned about how some improve their awareness through yoga or the Feldenkrais methods.

Even just talking to friends that go to festivals you discover new things to explore like “Oh, watch the musicality YouTube videos from Varchausky” or “Yeah that Amenabar musicality book has a lot of great listening exercises”.

I personally was terrified of the close embrace until my tango teacher guest DJ’d a fusion event and decided to take a bunch of micro fusion classes that were super useful in being aware of breathing, connection, etc.
 
it's about a shift in perspective. Since the pandemic, there have been many online courses.
Yes, and we use online resources (significantly greater detail and explanation than YT!). The downside is that there's no one to tell you what you're doing wrong - or right. It's missing the feedback.

We've also used zoom lessons - which were great - and provided the feedback
Most beginners are encountering new teachers on tango vacations.
Yes, we went with a couple who'd presented workshops we'd attended who arranged tango holidays abroad. Invaluable! Not so good if you only come across such teachers on vacation. There are a couple I'd avoid, and many mediocre. It doesn't have to be in the home country.

A change doesn't have to involve a hard break
No, it doesn't. But that rather makes my point about travelling. It's not like there are plenty of good teachers readily available outside a metropolis. We were fortunate to come across good teachers at opposite ends of the country - and with the opportunity to spend time there having lessons. Locally? Well, some new ones sprang up - to disappear. Our originals survived - just. We still go to their workshops (if visiting teacher and topics are interesting), and attend milongas arranged by our initial teachers, but lessons are now private and further afield.
 
I do agree that cross-training is valuable, but I think it is better to go to the primary source. We talked about small communities sometimes being a bubble, but tango as a whole can be a bubble too, and it is very important to step outside from time to time.
 
you discover new things to explore like “Oh, watch the musicality YouTube videos from Varchausky”
OOIHhhhh Ignacio Varchsusky is a fantastic resource!!! I had the privilege of attending daily in-person seminars with him for a week and have followed his YouTube material ever since. I REALLY liked his material on Gobbi and his series on Pugliese. He has first or second hand knowledge from the Who’s Who in the history of tango and is a walking encyclopedia.
 
I don't think it has much to do with math. If there were suddenly fifty or sixty good leads, then I suppose you'd be even less inclined to "give away" your tandas.
If you have a long and expensive trip and aren't satisfied with the quality of dancing, then it's simply not your job to coach beginners, let bored locals do that.
I beg to differ, it has everything to do with the math. Please refer to my original 'perspective' offered.. I did also write somewhere that he'd be advised to question his motoives. Was he there to actually improve his tango or simply to have a woman in his arms. Trapped for three or four minutes in an unpleasant embrace, if he wasn't well-groomed, as often beginners are not. One lead expressed in a workshop sistuation.. What would you like to tell follwers? He replied: I appreciate clean hair. Bingo.
While it does seem like a long and expensive trip sometimes, when I get to dance with a few of our good leads (male and female) it makes it all worthwhile. One good tanda works.
I'm not sure where your last sentence refers to.. I have leaders very discreetly inviting me to coach them a little when a choregraphed element goes a tad awkward. It's a cool thing to work together to make things smoother. It's a metaphor for life.
 
I don't think it has much to do with math. If there were suddenly fifty or sixty good leads, then I suppose you'd be even less inclined to "give away" your tandas.
If you have a long and expensive trip and aren't satisfied with the quality of dancing, then it's simply not your job to coach beginners, let bored locals do that.
 
It's a give and take in small communities.
Yes. It is a privilege to live in a metropolis that has tango studios, teachers, classes, workshops, prácticas, milongas, etc. everywhere – possibly so close that we can walk to them – along with a festival or three.

As I've repeated many times, I have two tango studios – including one that hosts Mundial qualifiers, where one of the teachers has competed in televised all-styles dance contests – less than 10 minutes away on foot. I have two more less than 30 minutes away on foot. I see two coaches weekly. If I wanted group classes in vals, milonga, tango de salón, musicality, or just sacadas, paradas, off-axis, or whatever, I would most likely have several choices . . . and if I did not, I could choose from dozens of instructors to teach me the topic in private. Oh, and despite not having a travel budget, I have a couple of festivals to go to.

When I return to my hometown, there's one studio with a couple of part-time teachers, offering just one all-levels class in seasons when enough students register to open the class at all. There's one práctica and one milonga per month – unless it's canceled. All events happen in shared space that isn't reliably available, in a part of town that isn't close to where anybody much lives. If private coaching happens, I've yet to hear about it.

In the latter location, peer-to-peer sharing and senior dancers informally coaching junior ones is the only way to study without resorting to either online classes that offer no individual coaching, or traveling to take a few classes that won't be followed up because you won't be there later to follow up on. I think that as long as the informal sharing and coaching doesn't happen at the milonga, it's valuable. I draw the line only at dancefloor teaching . . . that's disruptive and in poor taste regardless of community size. Especially for new dancers, it's important to have a safe space to just dance without having wannabe teachers destroy your confidence by making it clear that you have lots to learn, and it's also important to respect other dancers by not talking over the music, stopping the ronda to give corrections, etc.
 
I've noticed this weird thing in the smaller tango community with almost no new beginner leaders that the followers just seem completely hostile to someone starting out.
We have a pretty good-sized community, and the vibes are positive, so things here were quite the opposite.
Although I have a very experienced S.O. as my class and dance partner, it was like a feeding frenzy with the followers who were ready, willing, and eager to dance with me, despite being a raw beginner.

For those who took the gamble during my learning process, I always appreciated it and give back to them.
 

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