Are followers in smaller communities pickier?

[Brummbaer]

Unless you're going as a couple, it's actually very hard to find a regular partner for anything, even prácticas.

And, apparently, so it is with finding a SO! Joining a recreational club, such as dance, used to be considered a route towards that objective. So, maybe a 'practice partner' is a parameter to be considered for that profile, if a SO is an objective.

Beyond that, there appear to be plenty of dance partner search sites. I have no experience nor idea of their efficacy, and I'd guess 'social AT' is a minority interest there.

I'd guess the best plan is to actually go and see if there's someone in need of a practice partner. If you don't try, then it's obviously doomed to failure. And, in a small town community, if AT exists, there may be few other games in town. Might be a welcome alternative for someone from ballroom, country dancing, line dancing, or even salsa and bachata - or even a female fed up with having to lead.

 

[pianistamediano]

I’d rather wait for someone who wants to dance with me.

My opinion exactly, but there are plenty of women who would complain incessantly if this were de rigueur! They'd rather be up dancing than ironing their seats — which honestly makes me much less inclined to dance with them, all other things being equal.

 

[Tangogal]

My opinion exactly, but there are plenty of women who would complain incessantly if this were de rigueur! They'd rather be up dancing than ironing their seats — which honestly makes me much less inclined to dance with them, all other things being equal.

And they can mop up all the pity dances while I benefit from dancing with leaders who actively seek me out.

 

[itwillhappen]

Each space still established their own codes. More modern dances like fusion place even more emphasis on consent. For example, I’m more aware and am more inclined to ask for permission to lead, dip or come into a close embrace verbally. Even in dances like bachata I feel I need more verbal permission for closeness compared to what it was ten years ago after dancing in fusion spaces where I’m often surprised when a follower will ask “is it ok if I do a leg wrap?”.

Tango follows the social context, not the other way around; it's simply a matter of numbers. But perhaps your dance partners are now ten years older?
At the last milonga, a lady asked me after(!) the first song if it was okay that she(?!) was dancing in a close embrace. But here I suppose the reason was that my SO was sitting in the background.

 

[itwillhappen]

Unless you're going as a couple, it's actually very hard to find a regular partner for anything, even prácticas.

When I first started taking tango classes here, it was relatively easy. The gender ratio of people looking for partners was about 3:1, and the organizers quickly matched you up if you were halfway "normal."

After dancing a lot at milongas for years, it seemed more difficult, at least to me. On the one hand, I lacked contact with the learning community, and on the other hand, I had watched an advanced course where the participants had been dancing there for two to four years. After that, I never considered another ongoing course.
And many follower realized that the usual workshops were practically useless to them. Around half of the advanced followers today also prefer to register double-role for classes.

Currently, learning in our own dance room is absolutely easy for me — my girlfriend genuinely likes me to keep her engaged while dancing. And we try to dance a tanda together every day anyway.

 

[Bailango]

I don't like that many people dismiss or even demonize verbal invitations. We're adults and we're not participating in role-playing games.

It is not about playing games or demonizing verbal invitations - when seated at the same table. The need doesn’t arise and non-verbal is more efficient. Especially amidst the sound level around (either due to people talking or music being loud or both). For example at a table I can break the conversation which other person is engaged in (with someone else) by giving that look of let’s go dance. Than trying to say above the noise level “exercise me, …..”

 

[Bailango]

It could also just be described as a bunch of leaders practicing and they agreed to invite new women they’ve never danced with before at every milonga to support the community in making it more friendly.

That’s what I took it to be based on original description. On one hand people complained of not being asked. On the other hand
agreeing a need to ask those (ironing seats or a stranger) being labeled creepy. Jeez!

Shouldn’t we first take something expressed that’s over all positive at good faith and if not that atleast a benefit of doubt, unless proven otherwise. Otherwise no one would want do anything for the greater good of the community, if the first thing is to attribute it to suspiciously malicious motivations.

 

[Bailango]

The problem is that it is harder to say no to a chat-bezeo

The operative word on the forum is chataeo

when the lady I asked said no and then went on a little rant that it was her pet peeve when the men didn’t do it properly at the milonga as she expected it “don’t come to my friend group and talk and expect me to dance with you”. Granted she was someone I’ve known for years and she later clarified she was joking a bit but at the time it felt very intense and I thought she was incredibly offended. It’s to the point where now I feel a bit obligated to split saying hi to a person and catching up with asking them to dance a bit later with a proper cabezeo.

I hardly ever ask for a dance at hi. I keep greetings separate from invitations. I do not want other person to feel trapped by greeting. Since I am a leader, I can hardly think of a situation where follower felt offended when a greeting didn’t immediately follow up with an invitation.

Adhering to cabaceo or not, is a double edge sword. Once I did a walkceo to a follower I knew rather well and who liked dancing with me. A few weeks earlier she had tapped me on my back and verbally asked me for a dance. I always asked her with cabaceo, and many times at milongas we didn’t dance because she was busy talking or other men would ask her verbally while I was trying cabaceo. Anyways upon walkoceo she got annoyed, agreed to dance and said “I love dancing with you but you put me on a spot there”. It was dim lit, the tanda was right, and if I had tried cabaceo there was very slim chance she would have noticed. She was across the room, you can barely see someone’s eyes half way across.

This is predicament. If you follow strict cabaceo (which I do) you get cut off by people indulging in talkaceo or walkceo. Not to speak that in my experience only a few woman are attentive and looking around to receive cabaceo when tanda starts. The rest are either chatting to another lady (which means you can cabaceo neither), looking at phone, oblivious that men are trying to cabaceo, stone faced that you can’t tell if they are interested to dance this tanda or not.

Which could mean you end up dancing less than the tandas you were interested in.

 

[Bailango]

The key is to observe what rules are in play, and respect them.

Easier said than done.

 

[Bailango]

I come exactly from such a community. It was a publicly funded cultural corner shop. There was a bistro, two rooms, and a hall. On Tuesdays, there was tango. About 15 to 20 dancers, mostly Latinos who were also learning German there, sat at the large table in the bistro. If you liked the music, you'd ask someone and go into the hall. Afterward, you'd return to the table for Malbec, chivitos, and empanadas.

But that’s not a milonga it is hanging out!

 

[itwillhappen]

Which could mean you end up dancing less than the tandas you were interested in.

Yes, but life becomes much simpler and satisfying when you make decisions according to your own convictions and needs, instead of constantly trying to meet the demands of others. You can't please everyone anyway.

Ultimately, nearly everyone present, whether labeled "picky" or not, is more valuable to "the tango" than those who are - for whatever reason - absent.

 

[Bailango]

Each space still established their own codes. More modern dances like fusion place even more emphasis on consent. For example, I’m more aware and am more inclined to ask for permission to lead, dip or come into a close embrace verbally. Even in dances like bachata I feel I need more verbal permission for closeness compared to what it was ten years ago after dancing in fusion spaces where I’m often surprised when a follower will ask “is it ok if I do a leg wrap?”.

Honestly that’s batsh**t crazy. All this notion of seeking permissions. When you are partner dancing, you know what are the boundaries. Partner dancing has survived a long time without type of permission seeking described above. Each partner dance has different set of boundaries.

Most dancers can recognize their partners boundaries via body language or other clues.

In tango you know how close a woman wants to dance. A woman mostly knows who close she wants to be in embrace. If there is a clear clue that a partner doesn’t prefer to be very close in embrace, then the couple adjusts. This is normal.

You need verbal permission in bachata? I have danced bachata more than probably most people. It is a bit like tango. A woman decides how close she wants to be in the dance. Now if someone tries to use physical force to get her to be closer than she wants to be, then either they have no EQ or ability to read other person or totally clueless. The guys who intend to be predatory, usually are far smoother and that’s why they are successful.

There is a lot of virtue signaling in Fusion, one reason I never took liking to it. Other major one is I find most fusion dancing to more pretense projection and inauthentic, when compared to authenticity in swing, salsa, or tango. Everytime I went to fusion dancing, it looked like dancers were role playing.

In bachata, more often than not the women are perfectly okay with very close contact. It is us men who are more apprehensive of being in close contact with them.

Consent has its place and is proper and necessary. However forcing the concept of consent in all little interactions is unnecessary virtue signaling.

agreements like maintaining a line of dance or dancing out entire tandas and are great indicators to a stranger that at least you know some of those rules. It can be bent obviously for your friends or even for beginners that are super hesitant, but I’m not exactly sure how not doing them makes you more adult.

Agree.

 

[Bailango]

My english is too lousy. Please explain!

You have claimed that a number of times. But your English is far better than most native speakers You have a better vocabulary and better ability to express yourself than many.

 

[Bailango]

And, apparently, so it is with finding a SO! Joining a recreational club, such as dance, used to be considered a route towards that objective. So, maybe a 'practice partner' is a parameter to be considered for that profile, if a SO is an objective.

Beyond that, there appear to be plenty of dance partner search sites. I have no experience nor idea of their efficacy, and I'd guess 'social AT' is a minority interest there.

I'd guess the best plan is to actually go and see if there's someone in need of a practice partner. If you don't try, then it's obviously doomed to failure.

Honestly I think you have no idea how challenging it can be to find practice partner. I heard that from both men and women. My comment is not limited to partner dancing. You can see similar laments in youth dancing, amateur ballroom, and other social dances.

Most regular practice partners are a couple or in relationship with each other.

If you add to it “right” practice partners (similar level, right height for each other, can practice at same time, has enough amount of right time, etc) that challenge doubles. In my local scene which is quite big, I know men who take practice seriously but can’t find practice partners.

Even within a couple if one partner’s work schedule required 10-12 hours a day or uneven changing schedules (think phyicians, nurses, investment bankers, management consultants) finding time to practice can be challenging. Some people have more fix predictable schedules. Others don’t.

 

[Brummbaer]

Honestly I think you have no idea how challenging it can be to find practice partner.

I agree. I don't. Wisely I married mine.

And, when we were both working, with kids, we found practice time for our dance of the time. Might have been early at a weekend, or a lunchtime if we could both get to a venue.

You can see similar laments in youth dancing, amateur ballroom, and other social dances.

Yes. I see them. Nevertheless there appears to be a market, usually of women, looking for, at least, dance partners, and men looking for dance partners. In all the dance 'clubs, in all the world, and now coupled with websites, surely there must be prospective practice partners? Or is everyone too picky?