Are milongas getting shorter?

[itwillhappen]

As a beginner, you're naturally drawn to the significant and important milongas of your metro. You enter the venue with the same awe that ordinary people may have felt entering the temple in ancient Greece. You inhale the special atmosphere emanating from the entrance or stairwell. You hear the music, slowly getting audible. After sacrificing at the entrance desk, you symbolically cleanse yourself by putting on your dancing shoes. Then you slowly approach the inner, consecrated area from the outside and hold your breath. You look for a spot on the periphery. You marvel and study the behavior of all these beautiful people. You pick out dancers from the dance floor who inspire you and let them become your saints and role models..

If that leads to a sense of inner satisfaction for all participants, then everything is fine.

Today, high-end milongas are rather boring for advanced dancers. But as a beginner, they were incredibly attractive. The images are indelibly etched in my memory, itwillhappen.

Boring or not, my girlfriend likes it to dance well - well enough to make the resulting sore feet worth it.
Whether I might also be happy with pretty, talented beginners is only a secondary consideration.

 

[brujo]

As a rule, a milonga cannot be simultaneously attractive to both beginners and advanced dancers - at least not in a competitive context with limited resources.

They absolutely can. You just have to meet the needs differently. In Portland they have an outdoor event at Director Park with a live band every other week. A ton of advanced dancers show up to that one because it is free, outdoors and everyone chats and dances. Even non-dancers.

Recently Reed College had a tango for musicians public event which had 60 musicians and Argentinian faculty playing live music. They had both a milonga and a practica and people from a ton of different levels showed up and beginners and advanced dancers all had a blast.

I think it depends on the scene. Portland just doesn’t do different schools being competitive and exclusive in the way other scenes seem to be. Also having live bands makes the events attractive to non-dancers.

 

[opendoor]

My mileage varies.. The high-level ones felt super intimidating, and it took me longer before I dared to cabeceo anyone in those. There was absolutely no breathing in of the atmosphere, I assure you!

I didn't say that these fascinating high-level milongas were beginner-friendly; they weren't. Nevertheless, they meant a lot to me. I learned tango at a small suburban milonga, through a neighborhood initiative housed in a community center. Argentinians, Chileans, and Uruguayos were learning German there. They had milongas on Tuesdays, and I danced there for a year before booking my first group class in a tango studio. I learned by doing.

 

[TTanguero]

I didn't say that these fascinating high-level milongas were beginner-friendly; they weren't. Nevertheless, they meant a lot to me.

Sure, I understand. I'm just saying that wasn't true for me – ie. they only became interesting when I was getting dances at them.

 

[itwillhappen]

They absolutely can. You just have to meet the needs differently. In Portland they have an outdoor event at Director Park with a live band every other week. A ton of advanced dancers show up to that one because it is free, outdoors and everyone chats and dances. Even non-dancers.

Okay, well - there are obviously shared interests, too. Like paying as little as possible for a milonga, getting a breath of fresh air when the weather is nice and live music - to a certain extent.

 

[JournalInTime]

Sure, I understand. I'm just saying that wasn't true for me – ie. they only became interesting when I was getting dances at them.

That's my test for all milongas!

If I show up and all my cabeceos are rejected, that milonga goes on the "not interesting" list. As I'm not a glutton for punishment, I won't return unless a friend drags me there for their sake.

If I show up and dance most or all tandas, that milonga goes on the "interesting" list. I'll become a regular, unless it's tricky to attend regularly due to its time or location, in which case I'll lament the inconvenience and seize any opportunity to get there.

In-between cases mean that I'll become an occasional until either I'm dancing a lot and decide to become a regular or I've seen no change for a very long time and decide not to bother waiting to be anointed.

I don't associate this with level – not mine and not that of the milonga. I sincerely doubt that's a factor. I've had about the same number of "interesting," "in between," and "not interesting" experiences at milongas of all average levels.

It seems to be chiefly a social thing, related to age, contacts, and cliquishness. A school whose teachers and students don't visit other milongas can host milongas full of total beginners who are more socially exclusive and cliquish than the most advanced dancers! A milonga frequented by all the city's teachers, and thus overall very high-level, can still be exceptionally welcoming if those teachers are happy to see and introduce their students. I've seen lots of evidence of both.

It's a style thing, too, as some milongas seem to be the stomping grounds of specific ways of dancing. For instance, the ultra-vertical, zero weight-sharing, small-steps, and extremely static style, and the style with long walking steps in deep apilado, seem to approach being religions whose adherents don't get along well. We all know about the attitude some traditionalists direct toward "nuevo" (whatever that means to them). And there are finer distinctions, like mainly walkers vs. mainly turners, "slow tango" people who mostly pause vs. dynamic people who are in constant pendulum motion, and all the rest. I've had a few not-great experiences where I was the only person at a milonga who liked long walks and dynamic turns full of sacadas, while all the rest were shufflers who stood in place and turned with little rocking motions.

 

[opendoor]

If I show up and all my cabeceos are rejected, that milonga goes on the "not interesting" list...

But keep in mind that not all milongas respond to the cabeceo, not even always very conservative ones. Some followers insist on being verbally engaged. They expect style and articulate speech. Cabeceo there often is dismissed as brashness. Furthermore, many more intimate milongas view cabeceo as distant and arrogant. At such events, one should first introduce oneself to the organizer and then socialize a bit with the regulars. And you surely know that in Buenos Aires only touris actually use the cabeceo.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

We have a few instructors who do that, but relative to instructors at schools, they don't get a lot of business. And quite a few schools have dedicated spaces, whether they own or rent; they are not using shared spaces. These dedicated spaces are where most of the milongas are.

I don't think we've ever had that. Well, maybe when Dance Manhattan was around. They had a number of tango classes (as well as other types of dance) weekly with different instructors. One of the instructors hosted a very popular weekly práctica and there were two or three more on the weekend run by other people. At one time, I believe a weekly Milonga was held there as well, but that was before my time. However, Dance Manhattan closed when Covid hit so that all ended. But, it's important to note that the dance school itself had little or nothing to do with the prácticas and the Milonga. They merely rented the space. When Triangulo still had its space, that was about the closest thing we had to a dedicated tango school and Milonga location. That's gone as well.

 

[enrosskay]

But keep in mind that not all milongas respond to the cabeceo, not even always very conservative ones. Some followers insist on being verbally engaged. They expect style and articulate speech. Cabeceo there often is dismissed as brashness. Furthermore, many more intimate milongas view cabeceo as distant and arrogant. At such events, one should first introduce oneself to the organizer and then socialize a bit with the regulars. And you surely know that in Buenos Aires only touris actually use the cabeceo.

So, in BA, they verbally ask for a dance?

 

[opendoor]

No, enrosskay, this ahead. In Buenos Aires, the cabeceo is the standard way to ask someone to dance.

My comment, however, refers to a different context: The majority of the Buenos Aires tango scene consists of tourists, sabbaticalistas, and European tango teachers refreshing their skills. This clientele uses mirada and cabeceo.

Local tango dancers are mostly professionals, performing on stage, in schools, or working in the tourism industry, and are in their late thirties. If you encounter them at milongas, they'll always be sitting at the VIP table. Cabeceo is not used at these tables, just as you would never ask your closest friends with cabeceo.

Anyone who claims otherwise cannot distinguish between the role-play called tango and reality.

..in Buenos Aires only touries actually use the cabeceo..

Taxi dancers definitely use the cabeceo, however, not as natives, but as part of the role-playing circus.
Of course, taxi dancers also dance privately at small milongas and corner pubs on the outskirts of the town. There they also sit at a their regular table with their closest friends. And if they want to dance, they ask verbally.

I just wanted to point out that it is impolite to cabeceo at tables!

 

[enrosskay]

No, enrosskay, this ahead. In Buenos Aires, the cabeceo is the standard way to ask someone to dance.

My comment, however, refers to a different context: The majority of the Buenos Aires tango scene consists of tourists, sabbaticalistas, and European tango teachers refreshing their skills. This clientele uses mirada and cabeceo.

Local tango dancers are mostly professionals, performing on stage, in schools, or working in the tourism industry, and are in their late thirties. If you encounter them at milongas, they'll always be sitting at the VIP table. Cabeceo is not used at these tables, just as you would never ask your closest friends with cabeceo.

Anyone who claims otherwise cannot distinguish between the role-play called tango and reality.

Taxi dancers definitely use the cabeceo, however, not as natives, but as part of the role-playing circus.
Of course, taxi dancers also dance privately at small milongas and corner pubs on the outskirts of the town. There they also sit at a their regular table with their closest friends. And if they want to dance, they ask verbally.

I just wanted to point out that it is impolite to cabeceo at tables!

Thanks, that makes sense. There is no need to save face and protect against rejection amongst friends. Also, I learned a new term in taxi dancer.

 

[Bailango]

The idea that there are milongas not owned by schools is the wild part for me!

None of our milongas are owned by a school. We have a perhaps over dozen milongas a week. May be a couple of milongas are hosted by instructors, and their students will show up but form a small part of the crowd. Neither do the instructors teach at the venues where milongas are held.

Au contraire, school held milonga is foreign to me. When traveling too and attending milongas, it didn't feel like they were hosted by a school. My idea of school held milonga is predominantly attended by those affiliated to that school and small in size.

 

[Bailango]

Interesting. Just the opposite here. None of the milongas are owned or run by schools. We don't really have any tango schools here to speak of. We have instructors but they rent studio space in dance studios for classes and milongas.

Same here. I am used to Salsa schools but not Tango school. Also the people are not categorised as "belonging to x school".

 

[Bailango]

And you surely know that in Buenos Aires only touris actually use the cabeceo.

How would you know that having never been to BsAs the locals don't cabaceo tourists ?

 

[opendoor]

..been to BsAs

All the experiences are so subjective and totally contradictory. It always depends on what you're looking for. Most people are blind to the variety outside their own field of vision.

..the locals don't cabaceo tourists ?

They'll certainly do that, just like people in Bavaria wear short lederhosen if they work in tourism.
I was talking amongst themselves. Most people here are confusing the circus with reality.