As a fat follower, what do I need to do to make sure I dance lighter?

[Eternalvoyageur]

• Random thought: Going the other way, does leader skill cover everything, or might followers of size prefer larger leaders? In my experience, dancing going skillfully doesn't require leader size/strength, but it can help with mistake recovery.

I wouldn't say I prefer leaders of any specific shape or size. The only thing I don't like is a feather-light leader, which can of course be a person of any size. But if the leader is physically very slight, the contact surface is smaller when dancing close embrace. So even more need of a firm lead. I need to feel the movements through the chest.

My teacher has a petite build, but he is so precise and decisive in his leading that it absolutely doesn't matter that I'm both taller and broader.

 

[Mladenac]

I wouldn't say I prefer leaders of any specific shape or size. The only thing I don't like is a feather-light leader, which can of course be a person of any size. But if the leader is physically very slight, the contact surface is smaller when dancing close embrace. So even more need of a firm lead. I need to feel the movements through the chest.

My teacher has a petite build, but he is so precise and decisive in his leading that it absolutely doesn't matter that I'm both taller and broader.

Feather-light leader or feather-light leading?

It seems that you refer to feather-light leading.
It may be possible that the leader understands your following and it is perfectly clear to him.
But you may have an issue of understanding how the leader communicates during the dance.
In a short term you may ask for firmer leading and in longer more awareness will hopefully come and you won't have that issue anymore.
Your teacher adjusts his leading to you. Did you talk to him about this topic?

 

[Eternalvoyageur]

Feather-light leader or feather-light leading?

It seems that you refer to feather-light leading.
It may be possible that the leader understands your following and it is perfectly clear to him.
But you may have an issue of understanding how the leader communicates during the dance.
In a short term you may ask for firmer leading and in longer more awareness will hopefully come and you won't have that issue anymore.
Your teacher adjusts his leading to you. Did you talk to him about this topic?

Thanks, you are right. I worded it wrongly. It's too light leading that is confusing, because most of the time it is hesitant. My teacher leads firmly, even though he is slight.

 

[JournalInTime]

Honestly, the only differences I find are two:

1. More to embrace, which forces me to adjust my arm position.
2. No lifts, which is hardly a big deal because they aren't social tango steps.

That's it. As others have said, "lightness" is about responsiveness, not weight. With good technique and all else equal, weight doesn't enter the equation much. Height is another matter owing to blocked sight lines.

 

[Steve Pastor]

When I think about if someone is light or heavy, I think about "walking" with them. My experience is that more women are "light " than are "heavy."
I picked up my copy of Christine Denniston's book because of a comment in another thread. (more about that later, probably.) What made me finally decide to comment is your comment that you are dancing "close embrace" and need to feel movements in your chest. Rereading Denniston made connections for me and...

Managing the connection with your leader at whatever you and they agree is the the appropriate amount of pressure / weight / force vector you agree on, requires that you can take steps backwards while minimizing the change in that pressure / weight / force vector.
(Unless you are a Porteña in which case you can say, if you don't lead I am not moving. Kidding, sort of, but with intent. Actually, you touched on this when you wrote that your teacher is very definite with his intention.)

Have you learned and internalized the technique for taking backsteps?

(At the practica I most frequently attended where I live, the pre-dance lesson always included practicing this, whether you were a leader of follower. Denniston's description of this basic tango step for the follower agrees with what I've learned from other sources.)

 

[tangoing]

Honestly, the only differences I find are two:

1. More to embrace, which forces me to adjust my arm position.
2. No lifts, which is hardly a big deal because they aren't social tango steps.

That's it. As others have said, "lightness" is about responsiveness, not weight. With good technique and all else equal, weight doesn't enter the equation much. Height is another matter owing to blocked sight lines.

You don't see any difference when trying to do off-axis movements (colgadas/volcadas)? I basically avoid volcadas with heavier followers, and as for colgadas I just do the single axis variant without any lean back unless I get a sense the follower is really advanced and knows how to use her back well.

 

[JournalInTime]

You don't see any difference when trying to do off-axis movements (colgadas/volcadas)?

Technique for those is to match force with force so that nobody is actually falling, just spilling forward or back in a stable, controlled way. I'm neither fat nor a huge jock, but I'm a 180 cm tall, 79 kg man who's solid enough to pick up his relatively slim girlfriend and dance partner in one arm. Most women are shorter than me, so my weight is leveraged more. Many women, even if heavy, aren't much heavier than me if they're heavier at all, so if height doesn't do the job, I just go a little farther off axis. So, yes, I see a difference, but it's just in angle, not actual effort.

 

[JournalInTime]

unless I get a sense the follower is really advanced and knows how to use her back well.

I did read this part, too. I'm assuming "advanced enough to know good off-axis technique," which isn't all that advanced . . . the sort of thing I'd expect from a person who has completed their full series of group classes. (I generally use the broad definitions "beginner = less than a year of group classes," "intermediate = finished the full series of around 3 years of group classes," "intermediate-advanced = all that, plus started private lessons," and "advanced = as previous, but with 5+ years of regular private lessons.")

I feel out level from any partner, regardless of their dimensions. If a partner has poor off-axis technique in lightly off-axis movements like single-axis turns or suspensions, I don't move into fully off-axis movements. I don't do it anyway if my partner has bad technique but is very light; nor do I avoid it if my partner has good technique but is very heavy. No technique = no off-axis for you; good technique = lots of off-axis for you. Weight isn't relevant.

 

[opendoor]

Sorry, only about a fat leader and also not in English:

 

[tangoing]

I did read this part, too. I'm assuming "advanced enough to know good off-axis technique," which isn't all that advanced . . . the sort of thing I'd expect from a person who has completed their full series of group classes. (I generally use the broad definitions "beginner = less than a year of group classes," "intermediate = finished the full series of around 3 years of group classes," "intermediate-advanced = all that, plus started private lessons," and "advanced = as previous, but with 5+ years of regular private lessons.")

I feel out level from any partner, regardless of their dimensions. If a partner has poor off-axis technique in lightly off-axis movements like single-axis turns or suspensions, I don't move into fully off-axis movements. I don't do it anyway if my partner has bad technique but is very light; nor do I avoid it if my partner has good technique but is very heavy. No technique = no off-axis for you; good technique = lots of off-axis for you. Weight isn't relevant.

that’s a good point but isn’t there a grey area between no technique and good technique, say average technique where a lighter follower makes it easier to compensate for? Like where single axis turns are doable but gets sloppier the more off axis it gets?

 

[itwillhappen]

I recently danced with moderate hip pain. A fat follower with her inertia is then a risk, I simply avoided it.