Attention and attraction

cornutt

Forum Master
So here's that rant I promised a few days ago. My rant is: does anyone these days know what's attractive? Or more to the point, does anyone know the difference between attention and attraction? Let me tell you what got me going on this line of thinking: Last weekend, while I was at the apartment pool, a group of three young women and one young man came in. The man was evidently married to one of the women, and the other two were apparently friends or co-workers.

Let me describe for you one of these two women. She was at least 75 pounds overweight, possibly more. She had quite a few tattoos; some on her shoulders, some on her upper back, one large one that was half-visible on her lower back (the other half was hidden under her swimsuit bottom), a few on the upper parts of her breasts, a few on her thighs, etc. And pretty much every part of her face had piercings: her lips, her cheeks, her nose, her eyebrows, and even her chin. Now, I don't want to get into the apporpriateness of tattoos or piercings in general; we've had that debate. The point I want to make is it was all waaaay over the top. And speaking of tops, she barely had one on -- her swimsuit was so skimpy that it would make a supermodel blush. The top barely hid her nipples, and the bottom, well, we won't even go there. :rolleyes:

As I lay in a lounge chair near the pool, I overheard their conversations (I could hardly no do so; they were in the pool right in front of me, and talking loudly). This woman's speech was coarse, ungrammatical, and filled with four-letter words. Ladylike she wasn't. And the thing is: from listening to the conversation, it became clear to me that this woman thought she was totally hot! She talked about how men look at her when she walks into a bar. Her friends apparently didn't have the nerve to tell her that she gets stares not because she's attractive, but because she's a freak. Or maybe I'm out of touch; maybe she really does have a lot of guys after her. Not this guy, though.

And that brings me to the rant. Does anyone know what it means to be attractive to the opposite (or preferred) sex? Is being attractive simply a matter of doing absolutely anything to get attention? For instance, dressing to be attractive seems to be out. What is in is dressing in anything that screams "LOOK AT ME! NOW!" What is it with all of these 12-year-old girls running around in ultra-low-rise jeans and thongs (you can tell because the strap comes up out of the pants in the back)? What is it with all of the 14-year-old guys who wear jams three sizes too big, halfway down their @$$? Is there anyone who thinks that actually looks good?

And it isn't just teenagers. We get male job applicants who come in to interview for engineering jobs dressed in torn jeans, gangsta rapper T-shirts, and old beat-up sneakers. We get female ones who come in dressed in tank tops, braless, and in warm-up pants that have "HOT STUFF" written across the butt. Now mind you, when I first got into the biz, it was still in the days when men were expected to wear a shirt and tie every day -- and having done that through a number of Alabama summers, I don't miss that a bit. But some of the stuff I see the interviewees show up in, I would never wear even on a Friday before a holiday. In fact, a lot of it I would never wear at all.

And I can't believe that these are things that the opposite sex finds attractive. So tell me, folks, is it really that bad these days, or am I totally out of touch? Does no one care what they look like anymore? If not, how in the world do couples ever form, if they don't do anything to make themselves attractive?
 
hmm...must say I am with you (in the queen sized rocking chair, with the afghan---hey wait a minute..THAT could be fun)...I am all for occasionally, ahem, being a bit daring ...but I have found that gentlemen are most appreciative of my efforts when my hair is up and I am in something elegant...and when I am in something ...er ...minmal, well that is a different sort of appreciation that is not always comfortable so I cannot for the life of me figure out why one would want to maximize that...
 
You're not out of touch, those people you are reffering to are out of touch. There is a time and place for some things (on some people). There are other things, however, that there is no time or place for. There is also something to be said about dressing to compliment one's own body, and also about balance (meaning, if you're wearing a very low neckline, you should not be wearing a very short skirt, vice versa, and etc. ....ok, I'm not talking about latin costumes here, so don't anyone be a smart alec...)
 
In regards to the large freakish looking lady . . . my guess is that she made her self look freakishly so that she could get attention from men. If she didn't look like a freak, would anyone pay her any mind at all? Probably not. So now she gets attention from men and is so probably dillusional that she has made herself believe that the attention is a sexual attraction as opposed to a freak show type attraction.
 
Well, when it comes to job interviews, if someone doesn't teach you how to look etc., then you aren't going to show up with the right outfit on. I was fortunate enough to have taken a class called, Career Skills that taught me how to interview. They made us video tape ourselves, so we could watch ourselves later in our presentation for our job interview. It was then graded by other class members, and you could see how well you came across. It was really interesting.

So, I think that to some people yes... they are either a) delusional b) don't care or c) they don't know any better, because they haven't been taught any better. Again, it depends on the situation. The girl that thinks she's hot is a bit delusional, but the others that you have talked about for the job interviews in my opinion just don't know any better, because they haven't been taught the right way how to present themselves.

Now onto attraction! I know that I don't look good when I'm at work. For instance, we have to wear a uniform at work, and your pretty long hair pretty much has to be pulled back (and is never attractive at the end of the day, but of course I do labor work, but you get the idea). But in another post I have talked about how I got attention from a man that I drooled over lol, and I know for a fact in this case it wasn't because I looked good or even smelled good by the end of the day even lol. He was more interested in my personality and the things that I have done with my life etc. (and my dancing) than what I looked like, and this guy himself is gorgeous! So, I guess that attraction is different for everyone. Some people just want a trophy girlfriend (like my x), and some don't care about any of that is what I think anyways.
 
Heh, I knew it had to do with inappropriately dressed women showing too much of their not perfectly toned bodies :)

But anyway, Cornutt, you are not totally out of touch.

On the other hand, your generation gap is showing.

As far as work goes, I think the "casualness" of the work place has swung way too far into the casual realm. My husband, CTO of a company he started in 1997, goes to work in ancient sneakers, old faded jeans, and T-shirts that he got for free at various conferences. He's 33, not a starving college student anymore. I have been trying to get him to dress better (dark, well fitting jeans without holes from his wallet wearing through the pocket, shirts with collars, better shoes) but it is an uphill battle.

But as far as the woman at the pool thing goes...well, hotness is partly in one's own head, and partly in the eye of the beholder. Spend some time surfing fetish sites on the Web and you'll see that ANYTHING is hot to SOMEONE. What I mean is, no matter how weird someone seems to you, there's someone out there who thinks they are the cat's meow.

I know many overweight women who could stand to lose 75 pounds who still get plenty of boyfriends, etc. Being fat is not in and of itself something freakish and disgusting. It's sort of nice to hear that, however weird this woman looks to you, at least she's not going around full of the kind of destructive self-hatred that kills the soul and turns otherwise fun loving women into horrible depressed agoraphobic wrecks of a human being. (Or maybe she already is in that terrible place, and copes by being coase and getting tattoos.)

Anyway, it all boils down to two things in my mind:
1) different strokes for different folks
2) there is a phenomenon going on now in pop culture that has been written about called the "raunchification" of society...that is definitely coming into play here, for better or for worse

And, by the way, I agree with you...the raunch craze that is going on now is just offputting. I much prefer elegance (which is why I dance Standard). Don't worry, trends change. At one point (early 80's), being super Preppy was in. Now, the real Preps are still out there, it's just not the dominant trend in pop culture right now. But you never know, it could come back!
 
Laura said:
And, by the way, I agree with you...the raunch craze that is going on now is just offputting. I much prefer elegance (which is why I dance Standard). Don't worry, trends change. At one point (early 80's), being super Preppy was in. Now, the real Preps are still out there, it's just not the dominant trend in pop culture right now. But you never know, it could come back!

I remember the preppy stage, because that's what I grew up in! It is funny now that I think about it, because we were all trying to act like rich preppy folks when practically none of us were that way (at least where I grew up). But I remember doing the two shirt bit and everything else you consider preppy, because if you didn't, you just weren't in. Now to me it looks as though today's teens are into dressing poor lol. I don't know, but when I see ripped jeans and things, that style wasn't in when I was growing up. I think that Debbie Gibson and them did that for a bit, but you didn't own any yourself, because it wasn't preppy in our opinion anyways lol.
 
I used to wear pink and green grosgrain ribbons tied in my ponytail.

After that, I went through a mini-skirted "Valley Girl" stage.

Then I wore nothing but black for about six years -- drove my mom insane.

Every generation of youth culture has its own style of dress, usually calculated to drive their parents crazy.

Of course, if one is old enough to be the parent, then in my opinion they should not be adopting the youth culture "uniform" wholesale. If you've ever watched the British version of "What Not To Wear" then you'll be familiar with the phrase "mutton in lamb's clothing" or something like that :)

When one is young, one gloms on to trends as part of a search for a combination of both group identity and individuality. It's an odd union of opposites, but most of us go through it. The trick is, when one gets older, is to break away from that and develop one's own sense of personal style that transcends trends. Sounds like tattoo lady could use some help in that department. Cornutt, nominate her for the American version of "What Not To Wear!" :) :) ;)
 
at least she's not going around full of the kind of destructive self-hatred that kills the soul and turns otherwise fun loving women into horrible depressed agoraphobic wrecks of a human being.

Laura, have we MET before?:shocked: :lol: I swear- if I could fit that into my "location" blank in my profile, I so would!
 
PasoDancer said:
Laura, have we MET before?:shocked: :lol: I swear- if I could fit that into my "location" blank in my profile, I so would!
Well, assuming that we were both in that same place at the same time, I was probably too depressed to notice that anyone was in there with me....

Fortunately I'm out now. Hope you are, too!
 
Hmm. I agree that the woman you mentioned is doing this to get attention. I gather this from your describing her as not all that brainy. See, IMO, there are two reasons someone would dress outrageously. Either s/he's incredibly smart or incredibly stupid. I'm getting a feeling that it's the latter in this case.
About fashion... I seriously don't know. I like jeans with holes and worn out sneakers and t-shirts that have seen too many moons. Not on me, but I know many people who dress like that and look great. The only reason I don't like low cut jeans etc. is that 99% of the people wearing them are doing it for all the wrong reasons, those being fashion, wanting to look sexy... which show a person who's not thinking. Those people don't get my respect.
I have also considered the option that perhaps this kind of clothing is really comfortable. If it is, and the person wearing it is not doing it to be sexy but because it's comfortable, then I fully support it. It's not the clothing. It's the attitude that gets to you. I swear I could be a slut in a minister's robes and be totally casual and normal looking in hot shorts and a halter top. And that I have seen with my own eyes.
So I think what bothers us with 14-year-olds that wear low cut jeans etc. is not that they're revealing (because I think we're over this) but that they're brainless little twits that follow fashion and think they look cool and the boys will like them. I.e. all the wrong reasons.

T_E
 
I think there re other things that come into play. Take a good actor for instance, like Anthony Hopkins; he can do anything and it will hold your attention. So there's more to it than just appearance; its presence.

I don't have it. I can get ignored trying to get a drink in any empty bar,but that suits me. I want to be part of the wallpaper!
 
Laura said:
Heh, I knew it had to do with inappropriately dressed women showing too much of their not perfectly toned bodies :)

Well, I've even noticed lately some women, at work and around the apartment complex, who do have perfectly toned bodies and still don't look particularly attractive -- either because their manner of dress is slutty, or (more common actually) because it just comes out looking like their clothes don't fit. And yes, I've also known anorexic women. And I've got to tell you something, that isn't attractive either, and I don't know of one man who thinks it is. Now, I know that anorexia is a disorder that isn't particularly related to trying to look attractive as such -- it's more related to the self-loathing you mention. But I get tired of hearing anorexia explained as "well, that's what women have to do to attract men." Anyway...

I picked out a female example mainly because I don't spend a lot of time looking at men. ;) But yeah, there's a lot of males also practicing the attention-gettting-but-unattractive thing these days. With men, there's more likely to be a behavior component that goes with it. In another day and age, if a teenage boy in my presence referred to his girlfriend as "my ho", I'd bust him then and there. (That leads me to another rant: how gangsta rap is holding back urban music in general... but I think I've ranted enough for one week. :shock: )
 

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