Backleading.

[David]

I insist on the idea that female instructors cannot teach male dancers to lead properly, unless they are good leaders themselves and they are using "another" female to teach the males how to lead a move.

Ahem. I and many, many other female dance instructors have taught many men to be excellent leaders all by our little selfies! So there!
And what do you mean by another female? Like a woman teaching a couple? Yes, I can do that, too!

I have had some excellent female instructors whom I have learnt a lot from. In some case more than I've learnt from some male instructors. And certainly any female instructor worth her salt should be quite capable of teaching the leads for the level she's teaching. Just like any male teacher should be capable of teaching the followers steps and styling for the level he's teaching.

To "insist" that one cannot do the other is........................

 

[MacMoto]

sometimes its a weak lead...sometimes I am just too much of a newbie to guess properly....

I dont' do it on purpose, but just sometimes if the gentleman has a more gentle lead and I'm not experienced enough to tell.

Good teachers will tell you: if you don't feel any lead, or if the lead is ambiguous, DON'T MOVE. Don't try to guess. And if the guy gets mad, he's not a good leader.

As Tacad says, it helps to dance with people outside your class so you need to follow the lead, but I think it's important to get into the habit of only following the lead even in classes. If the followers do the patterns taught in the class whether or not they are led correctly, the leaders will never learn how to lead those patterns correctly.

 

[fascination]

do you really think a gentleman would prefer that I just stand there? for how long? until I have to tell him that I have no idea where he was sending me? honestly, I am willing to do that I just can't imagine it being very much appreciated either....I guess there is just going to be a certain level of dissaticfaction involved in the learning process and how that is dealt with depends upon the calibre of the character of the two persons who are dancing :wink:

 

[diputs]

do you really think a gentleman would prefer that I just stand there?

Yes, a true gentleman would.

for how long?

As long as it takes.

until I have to tell him that I have no idea where he was sending me?

Why not? He might have no idea he wasn't being clear.

honestly, I am willing to do that I just can't imagine it being very much appreciated either....I guess there is just going to be a certain level of dissaticfaction involved in the learning process and how that is dealt with depends upon the calibre of the character of the two persons who are dancing :wink:

I am a very new beginner. There was this one women in my class that was a more advanced beginner dancer. If I tried to lead something incorrectly, she would either do what I was leading or do nothing if she could not figure out what I wanted. It was a lot more valuable to me than backleading everything. There were plenty of other women that insist on throwing me around the room.

 

[Sagitta]

i really struggle with this issue.....when gentlemen get mad because I am back- leading they generally assume that it is both in tentional and because I am some sort of alpha female....sometimes its a weak lead...sometimes I am just too much of a newbie to guess properly....mistakes happen...I dont mind when a guy points it out in a friendly way but it just frosts me when he makes the assumption that I think I am badass or some other false assumption...even as a modern girl...I love love love a strong male lead....

That's what my housemate told me. She said that it is nice when a guy has a strong lead sometimes.

 

[Sagitta]

do you really think a gentleman would prefer that I just stand there?

Yes, a true gentleman would.

for how long?

As long as it takes.

until I have to tell him that I have no idea where he was sending me?

Why not? He might have no idea he wasn't being clear.

honestly, I am willing to do that I just can't imagine it being very much appreciated either....I guess there is just going to be a certain level of dissaticfaction involved in the learning process and how that is dealt with depends upon the calibre of the character of the two persons who are dancing :wink:

I am a very new beginner. There was this one women in my class that was a more advanced beginner dancer. If I tried to lead something incorrectly, she would either do what I was leading or do nothing if she could not figure out what I wanted. It was a lot more valuable to me than backleading everything. There were plenty of other women that insist on throwing me around the room.

Different opinions/perspectives...I guess....I would say that it depends on the people involved as you said earlier fascionation. Having danced for a couple years I feel that way now. In a class context not good to backlead. When dancing socially their are many situations when back leading or hints/warnings from the follower are much appreciated.

 

[diputs]

I love love love a strong male lead....

The same women I mentioned in the other post told me I was not being strong enough with my lead. I told her I was trying to be gentle with my lead. She just looked at me and rolled her eyes.

I figured that if I was tired of being thrown around by the women backleading, that they were probably tired of being thrown around by the leads. I need to learn the difference between leading and tossing someone around.

 

[diputs]

do you really think a gentleman would prefer that I just stand there?

Yes, a true gentleman would.

In a class context not good to backlead.

Sorry, I was referring to a class situation.

 

[luh]

- Yes, it will always be the male's responsibility to lead EVEN this type of female dancer -



So, who has experienced "Backleading"? They're somewhat of what I call "the Overstylers"... but behave in different ways, and these type is not usually as cocky as the overstylers can be (cuz they think they're badass). Backleaders are often simply confused, used to guys doing a certain move and when you pull a variation, they go the direction the other guys usually take them into, but no... this time you wanted left instead of right and they anticipated your lead...


Now, just smile when this happens... Don't make any woman feel bad. UNLESS, she tries to disrespect you by leaving you in the middle of the dance floor... :razz:



Any "Backleaders" in da house? Any willing to admit to it? It's ok... this is really not a big deal IF you have the right attitude.

i have experienced it, and hated it. If it happens in waltz. (that's the time when it happens the most often, because they think they know the waltz, and just start right away). So what i do than is change back and forth from left turning to right turning. Normally just, one, like to show her that it's ME who is leading. If she doesn't get it, i'll do more of that. :twisted: I'm a bad boy in that situation. Just hate it.
ran into it also with a friends sister. she wanted to dance with her brother. So i showed him some steps. And he was doing stuff, which was not completely correct, but that didn't matter as long as he'd lead back where he started. She never did what he lead, but turned when it didn't fit, and thought she new it better. and was always saying that is it was his fault that it went wrong. i told her, that she is allowed to blame him, but she has to follow to do so, not try to do whatever she wants. :evil: (he is such a quicklearner, those girls make it totally wrong, they should be patient and wait - but this girl obviously does that with every leader, no matter who, and how good he is)
in lindy or charleston it never really happened to me. Just those things, where she stops and tells me i'm wrong, where she has no clue what i was doing.
Also happened to me once in a ballroom class. I was just back from the usa, and i was asked to help out. haven't danced discofox for 5 months, i wasn't very good. But still, she started YELLING at me, and telling me i was wrong, ( i was just turning her the opposite way which was not wrong for what i was planning on doing), and than she "showed" me how to do it correctly meaning, she just let hands go when she wanted, turned, whatever... I WAS SO GLAD when the music stopped. I was really getting so fast as possible, so far as possible from that girl away. Luckily i never had to dance with her again. She is in my class and doesn't like me, so if i keep being lucky, i'll never have to dance with her again. I know this is not a nice way of handling it, but she was just SO not compromising. (she also always wanted me to call the moves - that she can do it without listening to my leads - obviously i never called out the move - i never do - except aerials)
so that's my story
luh

 

[Sabor]

'backleading' is like two people talking at the same time.. it disrupts the flow.. simply, its a manifestation of a weakness in follow skills.. or skewed perception..

there will be many times in the dance a lead will free the follow for solo action or shines and improvization.. but, intill then, they should follow the lead..

 

[DancingMommy]

I insist on the idea that female instructors cannot teach male dancers to lead properly, unless they are good leaders themselves and they are using "another" female to teach the males how to lead a move.

Insist all you want, it doesn't make it true, lol. And I'm a damn good lead if I DO say so. I actually have this weird quirk.... Call me crazy but I think both sides of a partnership should know both sides equally well.

There are many paths to enlightenment grasshopper.

 

[DancingMommy]

I insist on the idea that female instructors cannot teach male dancers to lead properly, unless they are good leaders themselves and they are using "another" female to teach the males how to lead a move.

.

Ahem. I and many, many other female dance instructors have taught many men to be excellent leaders all by our little selfies! So there!
And what do you mean by another female? Like a woman teaching a couple? Yes, I can do that, too!

Me too, but I prefer teaching men only. I can't stand bossy wives, lol. "If you could only dance it like she dances it maybe you'd lead better"..... OY!

 

[DancingMommy]

do you really think a gentleman would prefer that I just stand there? for how long? until I have to tell him that I have no idea where he was sending me? honestly, I am willing to do that I just can't imagine it being very much appreciated either....I guess there is just going to be a certain level of dissaticfaction involved in the learning process and how that is dealt with depends upon the calibre of the character of the two persons who are dancing :wink:

Sweetie, sometimes that is the only way you can communicate what's happening. I like to call it a clue-by-four. It's a great teaching tool. The hardest part about being a follower is balancing the knowledge you have of the steps (and or routine) and the ability to follow "outside the box". Sometimes if you aren't feeling anything, you need to stop and say "I'm not sure what's supposed to happen here". A good leader (no matter how inexperienced) will say "What are you expecting to feel?" Then you can hash out the details.

My coach has given me permission to stop and say "Hey, I'm not feeling you here..." Dance is equally technique and feeling. If you have one but not the other.... Danger Will Robinson!

 

[luh]

I insist on the idea that female instructors cannot teach male dancers to lead properly, unless they are good leaders themselves and they are using "another" female to teach the males how to lead a move.

Insist all you want, it doesn't make it true, lol. And I'm a damn good lead if I DO say so. I actually have this weird quirk.... Call me crazy but I think both sides of a partnership should know both sides equally well.

There are many paths to enlightenment grasshopper.

i agree totally on that one. It's easier to lead, and easier to follow if you know always the opposite. When i do teach, it's really nice that i know how to follow, because i can give them more hints. And there are more advantages to it of course

luh

 

[MacMoto]

do you really think a gentleman would prefer that I just stand there? for how long?

Well perhaps not "just stand there" literally, but just do the basic until you feel a lead. The gentleman may not always appreciate it, I must admit... but it's the guys who do take your point and adjust the lead who become good leaders, not the ones who get mad at you "because you are not doing what you are supposed to do". :evil:

When dancing socially their are many situations when back leading or hints/warnings from the follower are much appreciated.

Any examples of those situations? I wouldn't backlead in a social dancing situation unless there is a *really* good reason (e.g., imminent crash).