Bad habits?

[JournalInTime]

The boleo impulse should come from the legs, not arms (the arms just transmit)

Some teachers are to blame for the common misunderstandings here. They teach boleos with both dancers frozen in place rather than as part of the dynamics of movement by one or both partners. In their approach, the leader plants their legs and tries to flick the follower's free leg around with nothing more than a weight change. You can learn to do that eventually, but it's hard, which leads people to get frustrated and call upon their arms for help.

I was fortunate to have teachers who insisted that boleos involved the leader stepping around or with the follower, and then reversing their step once the follower had committed. Still basically a weight change, but a dynamic one that gets loads of help from the leader's walking momentum . . . it always works unless the follower's free leg is heavier than the entire leader, which poses other problems. The arms feel unnecessary. We learned to do it in place, with impulse from floor pressure alone, several entire sessions later.

 

[JournalInTime]

Of course, that underlines a bad teaching habit: Demonstrating and practicing all movements in place, not in their more natural environment as part of an advance along the line of dance. Tango vocabulary should constantly advance, with a very few exceptions like calesitas and colgadas. Even paradas are best led in a kind of cadena that progresses up the floor, not parked. Boleos don't really make sense if nobody is moving . . . they just feel wrong, like "Lalala, let's just stand here – oh, snap, there flies a leg!"

 

[tangomaniac]

An overlooked body part in instruction are the hip creases. These are the diagonals that connect the legs with the hip. To lead a boleo, I was taught 1) rotate the shoulder. 2) The rotation will cause the hips to rotate in the same direction. 3) As the hip rotates, the leg will follow.



Efficient boleos happen when the partners are directly in front of each other, not wedged into each other's armpit. When in front of each other, their sternums and feet are in alignment. The rotation is like a door swinging on a hinge. A pin keeps the door attached to the hinge on the wall.

When a woman can't rotate because she's wedged into my armpit, she sometimes uses my left hand as a wall and pushes on it for leverage to help with the rotation. I have arthritis so I don't let her get away with it. I let the arm go limp and she loses her balance, to her amazement. Dancers are responsible for their own balance.

Look again at this video of foutees.

The turn begins at the shoulders. The illusion is the ballerina is flicking her leg first, causing the body to turn.

Based on group lessons at tango festivals, nobody talks about the fundamentals of dance: axis, frame, posture, and balance. My private teacher drilled me on technique.

 

[itwillhappen]

Most common problem is that the follower insist to have her left hand om my back and the abrazo will collapse on the close side. If there is no other way out I will place my thumb on the front side and fingers towards her back to keep the distance. (. . to do whatever needed to fix the tanda!)

More experienced followers can dance in a centrifugal way, searching the leaders right arm against her back. This is very seldom active follower skill. (Light pressure backwards)

If you don't have the contact in the front, you should look for the contact on the back.

But I think it's a bad habit to try to dance with people who obviously prefer a different style, which means completely different kinematics here.
Misjudgments can happen sometimes, but what drives someone who always dances in an open embrace to invite someone who always dances in a closed embrace - or vice versa?

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Interesting. This wasn’t my understanding from when I took lessons in open. As a follower I have more connection points in open. Eyes being the first connection point - we did exercises without any embrace. My hand on the leader’s upper arm/shoulder and hand to hand on the closed side being the second and third connection points. We were also taught to seek the leader’s arm/hand on our backs as another connection point. Then as we progressed into other movements like soltadas etc we had to look for different connections and leads. I remember those classes as really fun!

These are fairly common teaching methods up here. Sure, when you dance that way, you get to observe your partner and eyeball his chest to identify direction. When you embrace someone you don't need to follow their chest to know where they are going, you feel it and move with them. Otherwise, arms and hands are almost the same. You get more support from a very close embrace though and guidance from the leader's right arm.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I also think it’s a bad habit to decide there’s only one way to tango.

Not really a habit though. Even with the so-called milonguero tradition, every dancer has their own way to tango.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

The arms are supposed to be an extension of the torso, they shouldn't move independently. It gets real easy, in ballroom as well as argentine, to get sloppy and rely on the arms when there is no direct torso to torso connection. And depending on how far apart the dancers are, it can get more difficult to respect the partner's axis.

Well, at some point the torso has to move, but it's not the primary element here. Watch some tango escenario, at some points literally everything is moving except for the standing foot, which may also be pivoting.

 

[tangoing]

The boleo impulse should come from the legs, not arms (the arms just transmit)

Yes..the arms transmit the signal coming from the legs - which is what I'm implying, not that the lead comes entirely from the arms, but that they help. Trying to lead an open side back boleo without the arms connected would seem pretty difficult in open embrace

 

[ArbeeNYC]

In fact, you have to work hard to leave your arms unimplicated a lot of the time. I've resumed work with my coach, who recently related a horror story about "El Caracol": a milonguero who stuck to, enveloped, and kind of crushed his partners. A tango embrace is indeed a hug, and needs arm encirclement to feel good, but the communication and dynamics come not from the arms, but from the torso-on-torso press.

Largely true, although the back arm support provides a lot of good information to the follower, as well as comfort and support. It's not completely mute.

 

[JournalInTime]

Largely true, although the back arm support provides a lot of good information to the follower, as well as comfort and support. It's not completely mute.

The weirdness being that, as my coach says, the vast majority of tangueras refuse to lean into that support and use it.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

The weirdness being that, as my coach says, the vast majority of tangueras refuse to lean into that support and use it.

Hmm. Well, I don't really know about that; I've never heard it before. What do they do instead? The arm wrap should be firm but not tight; comforting and supportive.

 

[JournalInTime]

Hmm. Well, I don't really know about that; I've never heard it before. What do they do instead?

Instead of dancing round, filling out the embrace and rolling in turns, they dance flat.

 

[JournalInTime]

But I think it's a bad habit to try to dance with people who obviously prefer a different style

I agree. There's one woman who is obsessed with dancing with me. She is a nuevo dancer who can't dance close. I avoid tandas with her, but sometimes I get cornered. It never ends well. For me. For her, I guess it's fine, because she hunts me down the next time.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I agree. There's one woman who is obsessed with dancing with me. She is a nuevo dancer who can't dance close. I avoid tandas with her, but sometimes I get cornered. It never ends well. For me. For her, I guess it's fine, because she hunts me down the next time.

Women obsessing over me is a problem I do not have. I'm not sure that's a good thing.

 

[JournalInTime]

Women obsessing over me is a problem I do not have. I'm not sure that's a good thing.

Well, either way it isn't a good thing. My girlfriend isn't jealous, but still . . .