Ballgown Construction Questions

[Chris Stratton]

I was wondering if anyone could offer some thoughts on aspects of ballgown construction that I haven't tried, or solved yet.

Underskirts - what's the best (inexpensive) material ot make them out of?

In a design without a waist seam, if you have a lycra bodysuit and a lycra or dance crepe shell, what do you hang the underskirts on? An inbetween layer over the entire bodice? A short connector skirt sewn to the bodysuit waist?

With a multilayer bodice, how do you finish the edges? I've been sewing 3/8" swimsuit elastic, folding it inside and topstitching, but even with a single layer that can get bulky. Folding 2 or 3 layers inside seems like it would be too much. Also most commercial gowns seem to have a finished seam at this edge, with the seam allowance and any edge tape or elastic hidden between the shell and bodysuit. I thought of sewing the elastic to the seam allowance and then topstiching it in place between the shell and bodysuit, but am not sure...

Also, are overlocked seams always the best idea? I was looking at something yesterday that just had a single straight seam with no finishing on the edges, which seemed like it might actually be less bulky.

If overlocked seams are used, is there anything to do about seam bulk when folding an edge over elastic, other than to just push it under the foot and vow not to study that spot too closely?

 

[Gumby]

I've only made a few gowns but here is my take on some of your questions.

I don't think for most fabrics that overlocking the seams is a requirment. My machine is a single needle - though it does have a pretty good overlock stitch which I almost never use. I usually just zigzag most fabrics. Sometimes I will go back over it if I think I might need a little more strength but unless I feel that the fabric is going to ravel or run and most of the good stretch fabrics today don't - then overlocking is usually over kill.

For your dress without the waist seam - what about making the body suit in two pieces and attaching the underskirts to the "waist" of the body suit? Or make an intermediate layer (lining) between the dress and the body suit and attach the skirts to that.


For the multi-layer bodice I think it depends on what purpose the elastic serves. It is stability mostly that you are looking for? I usually only use it at a neckline if I feel that the material will gap or sag if i don't use it. The one and only multilayer bodice I made I just made as though I were lining a regular dress and sewed the tops together and flipped to the inside. Not to helpful.

As a friend of mine very kindly told me when I was making one of my first gowns don't worry about mistakes that why they make rhinestones. Which probably tells you all you need to know about my sewing skills.

 

[Laura]

Underskirts - what's the best (inexpensive) material ot make them out of?

If you must use underskirts at all, I'd say chiffon or georgette is the cheapest. I find that designs that require underskirts require more labor, so therefore I try to avoid them when possible because labor is more expensive than inexpensive chiffon.

In a design without a waist seam, if you have a lycra bodysuit and a lycra or dance crepe shell, what do you hang the underskirts on? An inbetween layer over the entire bodice? A short connector skirt sewn to the bodysuit waist?

The first couple of times I did a dress with underskirts, I attached it to an inbetween layer as you mention above. Then, following Joe's recommendation, I started sewing them to the bodysuit at about hip level. I think that if there's multiple underlayers and you're trying to avoid bulk, the short connector skirt makes sense. However, if you're using thin material and want an extra layer in the bodice anyway, then the inbetween layer makes sense. Like everything else in sewing, it all depends

With a multilayer bodice, how do you finish the edges? I've been sewing 3/8" swimsuit elastic, folding it inside and topstitching, but even with a single layer that can get bulky. Folding 2 or 3 layers inside seems like it would be too much. Also most commercial gowns seem to have a finished seam at this edge, with the seam allowance and any edge tape or elastic hidden between the shell and bodysuit. I thought of sewing the elastic to the seam allowance and then topstiching it in place between the shell and bodysuit, but am not sure...

This has not ever been an issue for me, but I have an idea that I tried once. If you've got that Kwik*Sew book that I'm always talking about ("Swim and Action Wear"), look for the pages where they make a bathing suit with contrast edging along the neckline and arm areas. Finish the edges of the bodice off that way, with either matching or contrast edging as befits your design. The edges finish off very neatly this way, I very much like the look and feel but I but don't usually do it because I'm always trying to do things the fastest way possible.

Also, are overlocked seams always the best idea? I was looking at something yesterday that just had a single straight seam with no finishing on the edges, which seemed like it might actually be less bulky.

Sometimes overlocked seams are not appropriate. For example, when sewing the underskirt to the bodysuit I do not cut a seam into the bodysuit and then insert the underskirt and serge the seam, that would be too bulky. Rather, I simply topstitch the edge of the underskirt to the body suit (this is Joe's trick, not mine, and it works well). For general sewing, my serger has a narrow overlock setting that I often use because the seam created is less bulky than the normal setting.

If overlocked seams are used, is there anything to do about seam bulk when folding an edge over elastic, other than to just push it under the foot and vow not to study that spot too closely?

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. You're not sewing the elastic in with an overlocker too? I use a regular machine for that. One thing you can do if it really is a problem is to trim the seam allowance. The looper threads will be cut but the seam thread will still be there so it should be okay. Since I use a narrow overlock seam I don't get a lot of bulk to worry about.

 

[Chris Stratton]

Thank you very much Laura.

If overlocked seams are used, is there anything to do about seam bulk when folding an edge over elastic, other than to just push it under the foot and vow not to study that spot too closely?

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. You're not sewing the elastic in with an overlocker too? I use a regular machine for that. One thing you can do if it really is a problem is to trim the seam allowance. The looper threads will be cut but the seam thread will still be there so it should be okay. Since I use a narrow overlock seam I don't get a lot of bulk to worry about.

I'm talking about a situation such as where a princess seam meets the neckline elastic - often the bulk of the overlocked seam doesn't want to fold in as nicely. It can actually be even worse when overlocking a seam that crosses another such seam perpendicularly, as the bulk can jam under the serger's foot and really stretch things out of shape.

I'm a little worried about cutting the looper threads, since on a serger there is no bobbine thread - the only thing holding the needle threads in place would the be few mm long snippets of cut looper thread. (I've learned to seam rip serged seams by slicing the looper threads and teasing the remnants out of the way). Still, if done very carefully on the folded over part only which would be covered by topstiching I guess it could be made safe.

 

[Laura]

I'm talking about a situation such as where a princess seam meets the neckline elastic - often the bulk of the overlocked seam doesn't want to fold in as nicely. It can actually be even worse when overlocking a seam that crosses another such seam perpendicularly, as the bulk can jam under the serger's foot and really stretch things out of shape.

I see. Like I said, it's not been a problem for me. When I stitch the princess seam I use a 3-thread narrow overlock setting, which cuts down on seam allowance bulk. One thing that helps is to first look to see if the princess seam allowance itself wants to fold in left or right against the rest of the dress. Let it go the way it wants and then fold the neckline/elastic edge. That way, rather than trying the fold the seam in a sticking straight out position, it folds over more like a regular stitched seam. I don't encounter jamming and stretching problems here, but it could just be my serger. It's very friendly, which is why I love it.

I'm trying to think of when an overlocked seam would cross another overlocked seam, and the only example that comes to mind is when you set a sleeve in the armhole. The arm seam would cross the armhole seam. I do recall that I get a sort of weird build up of thread if I don't use my hands to pull the fabric through the machine right at the seam intersection. I just add enough extra pull just at that point so that the garment doesn't get stuck under the foot. Thing is, I don't always use the overlocker for setting in sleeves anyway. I'm always worried that I'm going to make a mistake, so I do it on the regular machine because if I do then I can rip the sleeve out and try again without having lost any fabric to the serger's blades.

Still, if done very carefully on the folded over part only which would be covered by topstiching I guess it could be made safe.

Yes, you've got a good point here. How wide are your seams when you serge? I mean, what is still left on the fabric? Mine are very slight, I think they're like 1/8" to 1/4" an inch in width. That's why I keep saying that I don't often run into bulk problems. I don't make princess seamed leotards, so that also keeps the bulk down. If you are also doing a princess seamed underlayer I can see how things start getting bulky -- that's when the edging thing I mentioned earlier comes in handy.

 

[Chris Stratton]

I've generally had the serger knives set at 4 or 5 mm, using 3 thread. That's still a fair amount of bulk when folded over. The common places I find the intersecting overlocked seams are the armscye as you mentioned, anytime I do something with a waistline, and also the crotch seam in a kwik-sew style leotard where the back is in two halves. Sometimes with sleaves or putting things back together at a waist seam I've tried hand sewing the pieces together at each of the point of each of the seams - both tacking the allowance down, and setting the spacing with thread 'pins' that won't damage the serger knives... but I haven't conclusively decided this is worth the effort.

I just discovered the serger has adjustable foot pressure (who, me, read a manual? nah, just finally decided to see what that knob does)

The times I tried to put a bodysuit in something before I always matched the number of panels as in the overdress. Next time I'll try not doing that - though I'll need to match the alignment more carefully without the frequent seems to serve as a spacing guide.

 

[Chris Stratton]

I've generally had the serger knives set at 4 or 5 mm, using 3 thread. That's still a fair amount of bulk when folded over. The common places I find the intersecting overlocked seams are the armscye as you mentioned, anytime I do something with a waistline, and also the crotch seam in a kwik-sew style leotard where the back is in two halves. Sometimes with sleaves or putting things back together at a waist seam I've tried hand sewing the pieces together at each of the point of each of the seams - both tacking the allowance down, and setting the spacing with thread 'pins' that won't damage the serger knives... but I haven't conclusively decided this is worth the effort.

I just discovered the serger has adjustable foot pressure (who, me, read a manual? nah, just finally decided to see what that knob does)

The times I tried to put a bodysuit in something before I always matched the number of panels as in the overdress. Next time I'll try not doing that - though I'll need to match the alignment more carefully without the frequent seems to serve as a spacing guide.

 

[Laura]

I've generally had the serger knives set at 4 or 5 mm, using 3 thread. That's still a fair amount of bulk when folded over.

Maybe you're just being really picky then??

and also the crotch seam in a kwik-sew style leotard where the back is in two halves.

Humm, not an issue, although I do sometimes have to pull a bit as described above.

Sometimes with sleaves or putting things back together at a waist seam I've tried hand sewing the pieces together at each of the point of each of the seams - both tacking the allowance down, and setting the spacing with thread 'pins' that won't damage the serger knives... but I haven't conclusively decided this is worth the effort.

You shouldn't have to work this hard. Your machine sounds really finicky!

I just discovered the serger has adjustable foot pressure (who, me, read a manual? nah, just finally decided to see what that knob does)

I was just about to suggest that maybe your foot pressure was too high! I prefer a light pressure and guide things with my hands. I also have been known to stop the machine, lift the foot in a tricky spot, move the fabric forward by the tiniest of amounts, and put it back down again, and continue onward sewing.

 

[tasche]

I haven't read this whole thread as I'm in a bit of a rush i will go over t and respond later and try and understand the question.

For the edge have you tried finishing it off in the same way they do lingerie where you sew plush elastic plush side up to the right side of the fabric witha small zig zag along the furthest away from the raw edge of the fabric thenfold to the inside and then zig zag along the other edge. This is how I finished the armholes of the sleeveless gown I just finished. I did the neck line by sewing the bodysuit and dress necklines together and then understitched it. I also sewed clear elastic into the seam allowance that was then trapped when I understitched it

If it does fray I dont overlock it unless the pricepoint of the garment demands it. Why put extra bulk of three lines of thread into your seem it you dont need it. I also like to use old style finishes like stitch and pink.

For the underskirts I slash the body suit at the waist line ( slight scoop to avoid bulk and sew the skirts to the panty part then stitching the two halves together

 

[Laura]

For the edge have you tried finishing it off in the same way they do lingerie where you sew plush elastic plush side up to the right side of the fabric witha small zig zag along the furthest away from the raw edge of the fabric thenfold to the inside and then zig zag along the other edge.

I've seen dresses from Randall finished this way. I was wondering how they did it. Chris and I have been using the Kwik*Sew method where you sew the elastic (I use the soft cotton swimsuit elastic) to the wrong side of the edge using a wide zig-zag. Then you fold the edge over and zig-zag with a smaller stitch along the edge. So it ends up looking like you did the whole "make a casing thing" but you really didn't.

 

[Chris Stratton]

If you've got that Kwik*Sew book that I'm always talking about ("Swim and Action Wear"), look for the pages where they make a bathing suit with contrast edging along the neckline and arm areas. Finish the edges of the bodice off that way, with either matching or contrast edging as befits your design. The edges finish off very neatly this way, I very much like the look and feel but I but don't usually do it because I'm always trying to do things the fastest way possible.

I can't manage to locate my copy at the moment to check, but I wonder if this is similar to something I've seen on Chrisanne gowns: they appeared to cap the mutliple layer edges with a folded over strip of what appeared to be the same fabric, attached with a zig-zag exactly spanning the edge of the strip. Looks good, but I bet it takes a lot of practice and/or some nifty guide foot to do. For one, lycra tends to roll at the cut edge - maybe dance crepe is better about that? Or more likley, their machine operators are very good.

 

[tasche]

In the method your talking about does the main fashion fabric completely cover the elastic?

In the method I use its done exactly the way they finish off the bottom and underarm edges of a bra

You grade the fashion fabric once you've sewn the first row of small zig-zag

I'm trying to find a book that has good diagrams so I can scan in to show you

 

[tasche]

http://www.taunton.com/threads/pages/t00111_p2.asp

This has very small diagrams

 

[Chris Stratton]

In the method I use its done exactly the way they finish off the bottom and underarm edges of a bra

Next time I encounter one I will be sure to concentrate on the details of construction, particularly the edge finishing.

 

[tasche]

Its probably a similar thing ( does anyone have a Chrissane dress they can snap a shot of the inside of? ) The plush elastic is easier to handle though if you press the lycra strip before you use it it wouldn't be so hard.

Using a awl is useful when doing tricky things like this that and lots of samples

Regarding bulk at intersecting corners what I do is approx 2" before I get to the intersection I stop and then lift the presser foot and then I put strips of book board before and after the section and then lower the presser this makes everything on the same level so the presser foot doesn't go over a hump as this is what causes thread jams and other lovelies. Once I'm clear of the bulky section I raise the foot remove the boards and then gently lower the foot.