Ballroom Dance Declining in Popularity
- Thread starter DanceMentor
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I agree l with your financially dominant thoughts about Pro/Am, but I do think accessible is more than just money.
The dancers must find partners who also know ballroom, preferably the style that they know. Which means they've already invested a considerable amount of time in learning. Its much easier to find WCS, salsa, zouk, bachata, and other social dance partners. These dances can be learned quickly (basics in less than a year) so a shorter-termed, learning commitment than ballroom. Dress attire is more casual and dance opportunities more plentiful. There are also many more of these social dance teachers. (It helps that formal dance training of instructors is not essential to help the students be successful in dancing with others unlike ballroom.)
To riff on Pryn's comment earlier, it's the algorithm. People don't search anything unless somehow the word is brought to their attention.
When I was still working, my coworkers knew I went to country bars and danced. Most of them were settled, with wives, kids and other interests, so they weren't interested. But thinking earlier, when we were younger some of us did get together and go dancing. If I had found ballroom dance halls, I would have been doing that, but I found the country ones first.
Now the RL algorithm has people knowing their coworkers are doing Salsa, Bachata, WCS and maybe they search that.
And of course the online algorithm isn't going to show anything you haven't looked at before.
Maybe what we need is a bar with ballroom dancing? But the money doesn't come from the floor, it comes from the tables. And Teacher says ballroom dancers aren't big spenders on the things bars make money from.
neveragain
Well-Known Member
I always thought places with bars aren't really the most fun place for dancing. Like when I go to country bars with line dancing, sure line dancing can be fun but no one really goes there and actually knows how to “partner” social dance. If there's a country 2 step song, they just dance with their own partner. I know someone from BR went to a country bar and asked a few ladies to dance with him and they all said no! There's also a bar in my city where they do swing (Lindy hop or Balboa) dancing, and they just dance with their own partner.
neveragain
Well-Known Member
DanceMentor
Administrator
From my perspective, another factor of the declining interest in ballroom seem to be outcome from key technological advancements that have contributed and shaped the on-demand trend we see in US culture.
Over only a few decades people have moved from TV to Cable TV to streaming. Phones have went from devices to connect voices, to sending messages, to being high-powered CPUs connected to the world. Radio has evolved from analog to digital and had carved out a space in the digital streaming world as well. Newspapers have had to adopt an online streaming presence in order to survive. Even movies, have had to shorten box office releases and move to streaming partnerships to capitalize on public interest before it wanes on the new release.
We pause a show, short video, skip commercials, communicate with each other's via cell phone with minimal regard to schedule because the recipient will respond quickly or when it's convenient for them. We can earn diplomas/degrees 100% online or in some sort of hybrid arrangement. Even the rise in food home delivery services versus sit down restaurant dining (spurred by COVID) continues to move the masses toward the values of on-demand eating and quick/instant gratification.
Ballroom is a journey that can take years of in-person commitment to become competent, and so much longer if you wish to be considered good. The nature of this beautiful dance discipline is ultimately one that must be realized in-person with others on a fairly frequent basis. It is a discipline that is best learned in-person rather than in watching videos online. It's also a partner dance which requires coordination of schedules with an instructor or a partner in order to practice, learn, or just engage.
Ballroom education has a model that is almost the antithesis of the direction our society seems to be headed in my opinion. Our society seems to be moving into a more self-directed way of consuming entertainment/hobbies/doing daily life, and away from one which requires regular coordination of time/location with an instructor or partner and in a particular location.
Admittedly, earnest efforts are being made to increase social media/digital presence by DanceSport organizations and studios, while dance teachers are increasing the offerings of learning opportunities online. Students are taking lessons from their dance instructors at a distance and meeting up in person periodically for lessons. All noteworthy adaptations to a changing world. But, it seems as if ballroom comes to fruition best when people are in-person, dancing together. (It is a partner dance after all.)
Not withstanding the concept that ballroom incorporates multiple dances; each having their own characterized nuances and a broad variety of timing combinations which require a longer time investment to learn.
I think that ballroom requires a significant investment of time and physical presence and that seems to go against the emerging trends of how people in mass spend their time that I see in our current culture.
[And this long exposition is not to minimize the expense/cost of ballroom as a factor of declining google searches. I do believe cost is still a significant factor in the decline as well - and I can postulate on that one too.]
I think you are on to something here, and I want to expand on this…
People used to go out social dancing because it was a great way to meet someone. If someone was single and was hoping to meet someone, dancing was a great way to do that.
But now we have dating apps and many other ways of meeting people online. 20 years ago, perhaps only 2 to 3% of people found a date online but now it makes up more than 50%. So people aren’t going out dancing to find a date like they were in the past. They might be more likely to go out dancing after they found someone to date.
On the other hand, solo dancing has increased, and this is something where you can watch a video online and learn how to do it much easier. You don’t even need a partner.
To make matters worse, people are not getting married and having children as much today as they were even 20 years ago. The marriage rate compared to 20 years ago is down 40%. There was a recent study that showed that 63% of single men under 30 are not actively seeking someone to date. So there’s less dating going on too.
I know that dating is not the only reason people dance, but it is one of the primary reasons people would start dancing, especially partner dancing.
In my area, I think that considerably more people are dancing socially than 30-40 years ago. And only maybe 1-2% found their partner on social dancing events or classes; most people are dancing because they like to dance, but whether their partner doesn't dance or isn't a very good dancer or they just want to dance with more than one person per night. So dating is very small reason here
It's just that percentage of people dancing ballroom socially decreased significantly, most of them being older and most of them being able to dance (a kind of) only with their partners
One of the reasons (I'm not saying most important) is different method of teaching. Salsa/WCS/bachata teaching is more chaotic - there isn't much structure, there isn't much point on technique, but people learn new pattern on every class and number of those is almost infinite (although surely some work better in real social dancing, some not very well and are quickly forgotten and some are more beginner friendly, while some are more demanding). This is good for both teachers (they can teach same students forever and get paid for that - in small area like mine it's important not to run out of students) and students (they are kept interested hoping they learn something new all the time although actually they don't)
Ballroom latin teaching could work on the same principle, but it isn't. People spend long time drilling same few basic figures and technique (big part of which actually isn't something that will help you developing as dancer but pure --latin ballroom styling--, something that certain authority said this should be danced this way even if there is no much similarity with how people in countries of Latin America where those dances originated actually dance it)
Ballroom standard is surely different, it is demanding because you are in closed hold so you need to spend significant amount of time working on basics otherwise dance doesn't work. And for that, people don't have time anymore ...
It's just that percentage of people dancing ballroom socially decreased significantly, most of them being older and most of them being able to dance (a kind of) only with their partners
One of the reasons (I'm not saying most important) is different method of teaching. Salsa/WCS/bachata teaching is more chaotic - there isn't much structure, there isn't much point on technique, but people learn new pattern on every class and number of those is almost infinite (although surely some work better in real social dancing, some not very well and are quickly forgotten and some are more beginner friendly, while some are more demanding). This is good for both teachers (they can teach same students forever and get paid for that - in small area like mine it's important not to run out of students) and students (they are kept interested hoping they learn something new all the time although actually they don't)
Ballroom latin teaching could work on the same principle, but it isn't. People spend long time drilling same few basic figures and technique (big part of which actually isn't something that will help you developing as dancer but pure --latin ballroom styling--, something that certain authority said this should be danced this way even if there is no much similarity with how people in countries of Latin America where those dances originated actually dance it)
Ballroom standard is surely different, it is demanding because you are in closed hold so you need to spend significant amount of time working on basics otherwise dance doesn't work. And for that, people don't have time anymore ...
Interesting. Most of the Lindy dances I go to are at bars, and I've never had a problem asking dancers or being asked. The ones where I find it tricky are when it's a very mixed dancer/nondancer crowd, but as long as I ask a dancer it's never been a problem.
I agree to this statement. It seems to be quite true when looking at the Pro/Am dance industry in the US.
I wonder, though, as the population ages, the volume of new money making it into the 5% gets smaller, and the numbers of people interested in long commitment ballroom dance journeys shrinks - will this same model be able to hold true for another 10-15yrs? I think another evolution of the model may be necessary to keep ballroom relevant for the next generation of dancers and strengthen the pipeline.
neveragain
Well-Known Member
I thought I would share this about ProAm from Riccardo and Yulia.
"To my fellow pros: ProAm isn’t just a "cash machine." It’s the future of our art —a chance to pass on the passion, to create moments that change lives. Our students aren’t just clients; they’re the ones who keep dance alive. And when we pour into them, we prove that dreams don’t just happen—we build them, together."
sMg==
I wish my pros will be able to read this...
"To my fellow pros: ProAm isn’t just a "cash machine." It’s the future of our art —a chance to pass on the passion, to create moments that change lives. Our students aren’t just clients; they’re the ones who keep dance alive. And when we pour into them, we prove that dreams don’t just happen—we build them, together."
sMg==
I wish my pros will be able to read this...
opendoor
Forum Master
Why can't you forward it to them?
neveragain
Well-Known Member
Well they might think I'm trying to insult them. I'm not saying they don't care about me but of course, we all know at the end of the day, they got bills to pay just like us. Quantity matters over quality bc of current business structure that sometimes they don't have in control with (mega rich willing to pay regardless just like the previous discussions on this thread). Besides, who will admit it? If they do actually treat their students just “cash machines”.
In American culture, just like your decent dentist asking ”how are you?”. They don't really want to know the nitty gritty of your personal life. And you have a hard-selling dentist saying you need filling on all of your teeth. Just like dancing, there are good teachers like the pros above, they are also those manipulative ones and the ones that are in the middle spectrum.
Warren J. Dew
Forum Master
Notably Roberto doesn’t say the students aren’t cash machines; he just says they aren’t “just” cash machines.
neveragain
Well-Known Member
ProAm = cash machine + keeping the dance alive
In my experience people who teach for large part do so because they like doing so if not love it. That includes dance instructors. I doubt ones who don’t like teaching will survive if they treat students like cash machines. It will be apparent, the word spreads, and they will not get students.
Of all examples lol. The dentist has to show you X-rays of cavities to justify the fillings.
“How are you” is performative in American culture/society. Most don’t care to truly know how you are doing. This has been observed and commented upon by many foreigners about the American penchant for asking how are you.
Isn’t that life? And applies to all types of professions?