Ballroom Passion

[tacad]

I was wondering if the ballroom people here are very passionate while dancing either socially or competitively or both? Of course my motivation here is the perception that ballroom is dry and lifeless. I don't really believe this though I also have a difficult time seeing this on the dancesport events on television.
So when you are dancing socially or competively do you use or go for some kind of passionate connection between you and your partner? Does this enhance the performance if competing or does it interfere with the dance somehow? If dancing socially, is there more opportunity for a passionate interchange between the two of you than competitively?

The big question: Does it exist in ballroom?

 

[Chris Stratton]

Sure it exists.

Well, actually, a whole lot of different things exist.

Sometimes they might be mostly personal between the two people, othertimes there might be more of an acting/show component.

In terms of how such an element is displayed - as in any art, you can hit the viewer over the head with something, or you can be more subtle about it. Some couples are just bursting with expression, others practice a simple elegance where every detail has a huge depth of meaning.

 

[tacad]

"Passionate" as in how...sexual while dancing? In a salsa thread the other day someone referred to the dancers as having "simulated sex" with the audience. Well I am not so sure that would go over well in a ballroom establishment.

Also it just doesn't look or feel right to grind away to Tony Bennetts version of Fly Me To the Moon. But things can get cheeky and flirty with the latin dances, even with unknown partners at a social. I just think there is a differnt level of decorum expected in the ballroom world.

"Passionate" as in dancers having a real love for what they do...? Well definately. If you have ever known a couple who starts practicing at 10:30 when they are done with a full evening of teaching. And continues to practice until 3 am. That is pretty passionate.

Ha! I knew this would be difficult to explain. Let me differentiate what I mean from tap dancing. (I did a very little bit.) One can be passionate about tap dancing, but there is no emotional interchange between two people. When you partner dance you feel certain emotions and choose to express those to your partner and they express how they are feeling back to you. This could be completely appropriate for a ballroom setting. For example, you look deeply into your partner's eyes and they look deeply back. You may have been looking at each other before but now because of the music, the steps in the dance or whatever now it is deeper and I was wondering if this is used in competitive ballroom as part of the performance. I was also wondering if it is easier to do in social dancing. I would think so because you're not on stage. And of course the usual opinion is that because you/we are so concerned about correct technique that there is no passion and it's lifeless.
I don't believe this but I wanted to hear what everybody had to say about this.

 

[leftfeetnyc]

Also it just doesn't look or feel right to grind away to Tony Bennetts version of Fly Me To the Moon

Not grinding, but this could be one HOT dance. The right look or touch at a key moment in the song...it would be more playfull than a steamy salsa, but could be equally passionate.

Passion doesn't need to be in your face, it can be very subtle. When you think about it in terms of "simulated sex" think of the varying degrees of intercourse...there's gentle and slow on one end of the spectrum, and wild, hard, fast on the other....same can go for dance.

As for being passionate about dance, ballroom in particular....of course!!! Dance in my mind isn't just a sexual expression but a life expression. A person can become passionate about anything in life and dance can be a way of interperting it....in ballroom or any partner dance you have some one to share that with. When talking to someone about dance you can hear it in their voice. You can see it when watching them when they think they are alone and start practicing steps or anytime music is around. The number of people who post here on DF seems to be a good indicator of passion about ballroom too.

 

[tacad]

Sure it exists.

Well, actually, a whole lot of different things exist.

Sometimes they might be mostly personal between the two people, othertimes there might be more of an acting/show component.

In terms of how such an element is displayed - as in any art, you can hit the viewer over the head with something, or you can be more subtle about it. Some couples are just bursting with expression, others practice a simple elegance where every detail has a huge depth of meaning.

Either subtle or hit over the head is fine. Both are very powerful in their own way. I guess the question I have is when it is mostly personal between two people. As I said in my response to Larinda you/we are often perceived to be lifeless because you/we are so concerned about technique. I don't believe this.

For example, you look deeply into your partner's eyes and they look deeply back. You may have been looking at each other before but now because of the music, the steps in the dance or whatever now it is deeper

Is this emotional interplay as I described in my response to Larinda as much a part of ballroom as technique is? Are you forced to drop some of this for a competion? One time in a salsa class party we did our own little competition. Ordinarily I enjoyed dancing with one woman in particular, but all of a sudden she was doing a smiling thing to the audience and putting on a show. I just wanted to dance with her. So I became a bit bored and I'm sure she was not happy with my non-showiness.

 

[tacad]

Also it just doesn't look or feel right to grind away to Tony Bennetts version of Fly Me To the Moon

Not grinding, but this could be one HOT dance. The right look or touch at a key moment in the song...it would be more playfull than a steamy salsa, but could be equally passionate.

Totally agree!

As for being passionate about dance, ballroom in particular....of course!!! Dance in my mind isn't just a sexual expression but a life expression. A person can become passionate about anything in life and dance can be a way of interperting it....in ballroom or any partner dance you have some one to share that with. When talking to someone about dance you can hear it in their voice. You can see it when watching them when they think they are alone and start practicing steps or anytime music is around. The number of people who post here on DF seems to be a good indicator of passion about ballroom too.

Again, absolutely agree! I do want to differentiate something like tap dancing (no partner to exchange emotions, passion with) from ballroom (partner) dancing.

 

[tacad]

Am I expressing myself clearly? :wink:

 

[Pebbles]

Since ballroom scene attracts such a diverse crowd, I think there are examples at both extremes. The dynamic ballroom dancers are breathtaking to watch. There are many ballroom professionals who devote their whole life to learning, teaching, and promoting ballroom. If they are not truly passionate about dancing, I think they’d have gone for better paying and less demanding professions long ago.

But then ballroom also attracts the wooden and mechanical “dancers”. Listening to them talk, dancing becomes memorizing the rule books and executing a collection of hair splitting technical points: “Turning your body 45 degrees while your center travels 20 degrees to the line of dance, while your knee is doing this and ankle is doing that…” Pardon me, but that’s a cult aerobic excise to music. I just don’t see the *dance* in what they do. I shudder to think of the day when they rule the ballroom world.

 

[DancePoet]

Hi Tacad!

It seems there are two types of passion being discussed here?

1. Passion for dance. 2. Passion being expressed through dance between partners.

If I understand you correctly, Tacad, you are looking for a response to the second one listed?

 

[madmaximus]

One of the higher challenges of ballroom partner dancing is expression--none more so than in the Standard Dances. As pointed out previously, there is more leeway within the Latin dances for flirtation, sensuality, and well, passion. The difficulty in the Standard dances (the Waltzes, Foxtrots, etc...) is that there is a prescribed set of movements(the dreaded *T* word --technique) that must be learned and polished before one can hope to properly convey emotion. And unlike other dance styles, the dance requires the partners to be in a specific position that often does not lend itself to partner-to-partner expression (except in certain figures where it can be expressly manifested).

That the common perception is wooden, unnatural, and technique-bound is unfortunate. There are a number of reasons I am sure, but if I were to guess, it probably stems from the fact that most of the good practitioners of the art do not have the necessary skill to show the emotion. So much so that it comes out artificial, manufactured, or mannered.

But I have seen top-level dancers (John Wood and Anne Lewis ferinstance) show the light lilting joy of the Foxtrot, or the deep sensuality and the unspoken desires of the Tango--and so very naturally share this expression of emotion with their partners during a performance. So yes, IMO, there is more emotion or passion (ie--expression) in ballroom and that it is not nearly as mechanical as some people presume.

maximus

 

[clave]

It seems there are two types of passion being discussed here?

1. Passion for dance. 2. Passion being expressed through dance between partners.

If I understand you correctly, Tacad, you are looking for a response to the second one listed?

I have no doubts that every accomplished ballroom dancer must be (or have been for a period of time) very passionate about dancing--where would the motivation for all the hard word required to excel come from otherwise?

From references to the other thread it seems to me that what tacad had in mind is a different kind of passion. How about a blunt example: suppose I have a friend I want to induce into this whole dance thing. I take her to a ballroom competition. Yawn. I take her to a salsa party with performances. Woo-hoo! Which one do you think will win over an active twenty-something professional and make her part with hard-earned dough to get lessons?

 

[clave]

"Passionate" as in dancers having a real love for what they do...? Well definately. If you have ever known a couple who starts practicing at 10:30 when they are done with a full evening of teaching. And continues to practice until 3 am. That is pretty passionate.

Wow! Workaholic dancers! And here I thought that only us geeks stay riveted to computer screens until the wee hours.

I have a practical question, though. Do you find that you actually benefit from such a long practice? I find that my capacity for absorbing new stuff drops off rapidly after the second hour, not to even mention that my balance goes out the window a bit sooner than that... Back when I used to play music I found that more frequent but shorter practice sessions were far more beneficial than one marathon session; after a while my focus would waver, I would only keep repeating the same mistakes and lose the will to keep practicing daily. How do you prevent burnout?

 

[Sagitta]

"Passionate" as in dancers having a real love for what they do...? Well definately. If you have ever known a couple who starts practicing at 10:30 when they are done with a full evening of teaching. And continues to practice until 3 am. That is pretty passionate.

Wow! Workaholic dancers! And here I thought that only us geeks stay riveted to computer screens until the wee hours.

I have a practical question, though. Do you find that you actually benefit from such a long practice? I find that my capacity for absorbing new stuff drops off rapidly after the second hour, not to even mention that my balance goes out the window a bit sooner than that... Back when I used to play music I found that more frequent but shorter practice sessions were far more beneficial than one marathon session; after a while my focus would waver, I would only keep repeating the same mistakes and lose the will to keep practicing daily. How do you prevent burnout?

I ahve teh same problem clave. I cannot conssitently maintain a high degree of focus for long periods of time... :? I wouldn't mind getting tips to improve, if that is possible...

 

[DancePoet]

One of the higher challenges of ballroom partner dancing is expression--none more so than in the Standard Dances. As pointed out previously, there is more leeway within the Latin dances for flirtation, sensuality, and well, passion. The difficulty in the Standard dances (the Waltzes, Foxtrots, etc...) is that there is a prescribed set of movements(the dreaded *T* word --technique) that must be learned and polished before one can hope to properly convey emotion. And unlike other dance styles, the dance requires the partners to be in a specific position that often does not lend itself to partner-to-partner expression (except in certain figures where it can be expressly manifested).

That the common perception is wooden, unnatural, and technique-bound is unfortunate. There are a number of reasons I am sure, but if I were to guess, it probably stems from the fact that most of the good practitioners of the art do not have the necessary skill to show the emotion. So much so that it comes out artificial, manufactured, or mannered.

But I have seen top-level dancers (John Wood and Anne Lewis ferinstance) show the light lilting joy of the Foxtrot, or the deep sensuality and the unspoken desires of the Tango--and so very naturally share this expression of emotion with their partners during a performance. So yes, IMO, there is more emotion or passion (ie--expression) in ballroom and that it is not nearly as mechanical as some people presume.

I want to get this good. I believe this comes from feeling the music, and permiting those feelings to resonate out through the body to create expression of those feelings. I'm relatively new to the ballroom community, and despite the need to focus on the technique, I find myself sometimes just trying to flow with the music, and occasionally I feel my feelings moving through my body. I know an expression of this comes out, even though my technique is still way off from being good. It is at these moments when I am experiencing the most joy in my dancing.

I started with Amercian style, and now that I have switched to International style (see why in the New Years Dance Goals thread) I seem to sense a difference in my ability to have this happen. Perhaps this is because I am learning something that is different. Perhaps because there are less open positions. Perhaps the technique seems to be more exacting with Standard. Perhaps something else. Or perhaps most likely a combination of these.

There is a picture in the DF Photo Album where Larinda and Steve have a pose they have created for American style Tango, and SD caught it at an incredible moment where you can just see the power of the emotions being displayed by the two of them. I can see it, I can sense it even in it's stillness, and it likely would have been even better in person, but what I aim to do is experience this kind essence of the joy in life through dance! Even if I can never be as good as the best, I believe I can get good enough to experience it more often then I do now.

 

[DancePoet]

It seems there are two types of passion being discussed here?

1. Passion for dance. 2. Passion being expressed through dance between partners.

If I understand you correctly, Tacad, you are looking for a response to the second one listed?

I have no doubts that every accomplished ballroom dancer must be (or have been for a period of time) very passionate about dancing--where would the motivation for all the hard word required to excel come from otherwise?

From references to the other thread it seems to me that what tacad had in mind is a different kind of passion. How about a blunt example: suppose I have a friend I want to induce into this whole dance thing. I take her to a ballroom competition. Yawn. I take her to a salsa party with performances. Woo-hoo! Which one do you think will win over an active twenty-something professional and make her part with hard-earned dough to get lessons?

That depends on what she likes more?