Ballroom style

pygmalion said:
Yes. I read that, tt. :-)


I'm suggesting that international style foxtrot may have continued to evolve after bronze foxtrot (a la Arthur Murray) was already set and on a different path of evolution. Maybe not. You would certainly know better than I. :cool:
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I would agree with that.. in fact, many of the franchise schools that I coached and taught in when I first arrived in US, would not entertain the idea of Intern. style being taught .
 
tangotime said:
used to be that way ( still is in some quarters ) , maybe not so much denial, but more like " we know a better way " .
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Don't know about better, but I certainly wouldn't prefer American style to English (aka 'International'), but that's probably because of my background and an unwillingness to dance solo.

From a commercial point of view, it's the customer's indifference that counts. If I had a regular stream of enquiries to teach American Smooth, I probably would. I've never had one. I think I remember you writing recently that you have had a similar experience here?
 
UKDancer said:
Don't know about better, but I certainly wouldn't prefer American style to English (aka 'International'), but that's probably because of my background and an unwillingness to dance solo.

From a commercial point of view, it's the customer's indifference that counts. If I had a regular stream of enquiries to teach American Smooth, I probably would. I've never had one. I think I remember you writing recently that you have had a similar experience here?
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Dance Solo???.. why do you think its danced solo?. I thought you said you knew about Amer.styles ?.

Its a partnership dance that has much closer roots to the original form than does the one we pass off today as Intern. style . You may well be surprised to see/know, that it has some very excellent variety in its syl.

As to Amer. smooth.. no I personally have not ( altho I teach the basic Br. level to my social students ). but.. theres a Pro who came over to B/mouth ans was booked for a whole week teaching nothing but.

There is also an Examiner who frequents the S.West, who does regular classes in Amer.style ... guess its the old old story.. location, location.
 
tangotime said:
Dance Solo???.. why do you think its danced solo?. I thought you said you knew about Amer.styles ?
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I meant that no one dances American style around here: if I did, I'd be dancing solo!

The only exposure anyone gets in the UK to American Smooth (and only Smooth) is that it has been danced on the last few series of 'Strictly Come Dancing'. I make no comment on the relative merits of the two styles, or on their claims to 'authenticity'. But anyone who dances American styles in the UK does so either for the purposes of competition (and not much of that), or because they have a connection with the 'States, or they just want to try something different. I don't think that's going to change.
 
UKDancer said:
I meant that no one dances American style around here: if I did, I'd be dancing solo!


But anyone who dances American styles in the UK does so either for the purposes of competition (and not much of that), or because they have a connection with the 'States, or they just want to try something different. I don't think that's going to change


.
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Oh..gotcha..

Well, it seems to have some kind of interest in these parts.. dont know why . IDTA seems to promote it somewhat .
 
Or plain old country pride and arrogance. I have a student from Denmark and he informed me the other day that both Rumba and Argentine Tango originated in DENMARK.
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That's an ... interesting ... idea.

Out of interest, how did he reconcile the "Argentine" bit of the name with his claim?
 
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Dave Bailey said:
Finnish Tango did indeed originate in Finland. Funnily enough :) - here's a review from a couple of years ago.

Argentine Tango though, I can't see how anyone can claim that originated from Denmark. The name's a bit of a giveaway...
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No it originated in Wales; the Welsh on their way to Patagonia taught a dance called Y tân Goch or "red fire".....which was adopted by the Africans who were amused by Welsh costume and the funny hats they wore, and parodied it, much as they did when they invented the Cake Walk..
 
Many Finns believe that the tango originated in Finland as a folk dance based on cross-country skiing; and which was introduced to Argentina by Finnish sailors. I once met a Swede who said on the contrary, tango originated in Sweden. I see no reason why the Danes shouldn't get in on the act. Other nations claim the honour: Gladys Beattie Crozier, in "The Tango and how to dance it" 1913, says that according to Monsieur Richepin the tango originated as a war dance in ancient Thebes. Crozier herself is of the opinion that it is Spanish.

Here is a film that it might be worth looking out for: http://finland.fi/Public/default.aspx?contentid=216005&nodeid=41798&culture=en-US
 
Interesting discussion - but it misses an essential point. Argentine Tango and Swing Dance are improvised on the floor and adapts to changes in rhythm and melody.

The whole purpose of AT and Swing dance technique is about giving the dancers the tools to create choreography on the fly.

Although the young dancers and athletic and poised there is very little evidence of improvisation in what they are doing.

You might criticise the dance in that it does not use traditional AT Stylying or technique, but if they used their considerable skills to improvise rather than follow choreography they would be following the ethos of AT more closely.

The tradgedy with this is of course that the observers think this is Argentine Tango, and that if only they learned 'the right steps' they could do it.

It doesn't work that way.
 
The difficulty with ballroom dancers doing any kind of non-ballroom dance is that they try to 'shape it' into ballroom form.

That is to say that they want to define and deliniate the physical movements rather than interpret or follow the music.

The physical actions are more important than creative interpretation or improvisation.

While the AT or Swing dancer seeks overall fluidity of movement the Ballroom dancer wants sharply defined steps and actions - and it comes out in both the video's.

It's s difference in how dance is understood and what exactly dance is.

One set of people think that with ever more precision and control you inevitablly become a better dancer, another group that the closer you are to the music the better dancer you are, and control is a means to achieve that, not an end in itself.

It's essentially the difference between the concert musician following sheet music and the freely improvising Jazz musician.

Rachmaninov v Albert Ammons

What the two dancers in the two sample video's are trying to do is in effect convert Albert Ammons piano playing to a concert format. A technically precise rendition can be achieved - but it completely goes against everything Albert Ammons was doing with his piano playing.

Look up Albert Ammons on youtube - that's the feeling AT and Swing have about dance. Then look up Rachmaninov - its Ballroom.

That's not to say one is better than the other or that one is wrong and the other is right - just that they are trying to achieve completely different things.
 
Polynomial said:
The difficulty with ballroom dancers doing any kind of non-ballroom dance is that they try to 'shape it' into ballroom form.
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That's a pretty sweeping statement (and implicit condemnation) -- probably unsupportably general, I would guess.
 
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