basic swingout video clip

B

blue

New Member
I guess you have seen this site? The link has probably been posted here before.
http://www.how2dance.com/
Enter the site, and go to Media. They have clips that shows individual moves from several angles, including audial instructions. Mostly lindy, plus some balboa. Quite some resource!

I am puzzled about one technical detail, though. In the basic swingout (they call it lindy basic) when he sends her out, the follower's arm get really bent. Isn't this a bit strange? It could be he is excaggerating the send out-thing with his left arm to make it obvious on video, but still...

What do you think?
 
I don't remember seeing this before...but then I haven't looked at danec clips etc much lately. I don't know enough about lindy to comment, but would be interested in what others say about the technique and thinsg like the arm bending. Might be useful for me to learn something if they are good.
 
Blue - during the "5" of the swingout the lead in this video does what I refer to as "bowling with follows". He pushes his left arm forward in what appears to be an effort to force the follow back to the beginning of the slot. She - wisely - bends her arm a LOT to absorb the lead's push. I think that it is very bad technique and is not comfortable for the follow. Instead, the lead should send the follow out using his right hand on her back and a body lead towards the beginning of the slot.
 
Blue - I also looked at their Balboa basic. I don't know who these people are, but it would appear that they are beginning/intermediate Balboa dancers. If you want to see some good balboa, go to balboanation.com and look at some of the video available there.
 
I am relieved you agree with me, or I would have made a complete fool of myself exposing my ignorance...

Too bad, then. Why put this kind of thing up, if you can't show some decent technique. They are asking people to send in films to expand the site, but if the start isn't good I don't suppose the rest will be much quality either.

Btw, I have been taught to use both hands in leading the follower to go out - but the left hand is just a little guidance that follows quite nicely from your own body turning, making it more natural for the follow to go straight ahead not turning to look back on the leader and go out backwards.
 
Okay, curiosity got the better of me.

Cool concept, bad swingout.

There are several differnet ways of doing a swingout (or a swingout-like move), this seems to be trying something in between of what I call a whip, and the way I prefer to do the swingout.

They way I prefer to do the swingout is with a rubberbandlike effect on 4-5, and quite straight back and forth motions and the girl is moving sideways on 5-6. This move can be led entirely withouth using the left hand after around 3-4. The second half og the swingout can be led with only the body and a connection between the right hand and the followers back. (Okay, it's preferable to catch the the womans right hand at the end to stop her.) Normally I will keep connection and tension in the left-right hold though.

Then I can do the whip, where I turn the body much more on 5, which in turn turns the lady and sends her out backwards. For added effect, I can lead her backwards ('pushing') too with my left hand. This extra/optional 'push' seems like is what this guy tries to do. But he does something weird with his arm, it doesn't seem aligned. And the follow seems to compensate for something by giving in instead of letting her arm move her body. Also, if this was supposed to be a whip, he would have to turn both bodies more, because she's definitely not leaving backwards.

As a third option, in case of woman leaving the swingout, you can lead her out forwards. I usually do that by letting go of the lead earlier, not turning her sideways, and by letting her right hand go on the left side of my body initially, instead of on the right side. This sorts of leaves the woman 'alone' earlier in the swingout, and not everyone seems to comfortable with that when used to being led the whole move. But this also gives the woman freedom to play around and do some different improvsations than she normally can do in a swingout. It can also give a cool effect on the end, since she's moving forward and can add a sharp twist, wave to the crowd etc.

Anyways, not the best clip. Not something to study if you want to get the details right.
 
blue said:
I am relieved you agree with me, or I would have made a complete fool of myself exposing my ignorance...
Click to expand...
Quite the opposite. There's no shame in not knowing. Ignorance is only when you choose to continue not knowing. So when you ask, you're not being an ignorant.
 
I have now watched most of the Linsy clips, and I would have to say that it is a quite nice databse of moves. But both demonstrating couples are clearly not advanced Lindy dancers, more like intermediate.

Especially the side by side charleston shows that these guys have not been dancing for a long time. Very stiff and akward looking. Look at the end of the kicks, how they just end abrubtly with no controll. Like you have a stone at the end of an unflexible rope. There's a general lack of fluidity and control in most of the moves.

But hey, no disrespect to these guys! I think it's great what they're doing, and I think the idea of this database is very good. They show a lot of nice simple moves, several I should use much more myself, and several I didn't know. And we have all been at their level of dancing or below at some time. Just don't try to get details about style or leading out of these videos.
 
blue said:
Btw, I have been taught to use both hands in leading the follower to go out - but the left hand is just a little guidance that follows quite nicely from your own body turning, making it more natural for the follow to go straight ahead not turning to look back on the leader and go out backwards.
Click to expand...

Yes, there are a number of valid techniques. To encourage the follow to walk straight out, the lead releases the right hand on 5 before rotation and drops the left low, allowing the follow to walk out without wrenching her arm. Foir a typical whip, you might lead the follow towards you on say 4.5, rotate the follow on 5 by rotating your own body and then release her backwards on 5.5 or so. At that point the lead's left hand provides stability for the follow if she wants it. In the event that she does swivles on 6-7-8, she probably wants the hand there.

And there are a number of other valid techniques as well. But bowling with follows - as in the video clip - is generally a bad idea.
 
blue said:
Why put this kind of thing up, if you can't show some decent technique.
Click to expand...

Well, that site dramatically expanded my repertoire of flashy/interesting moves. I agree that some of their dancing appears a bit sloppy; sometimes the timing is a little off. But they do a good job of showing the moves.

Technique and connection is something best learned from actual classes. Once you have the basics, you can learn new moves from the videos and figure out the proper technique yourself.

For instance, all their pop turn variations are great, but you need to have learned the proper connection for leading a pop turn, which is a bit subtle; there's no way you could get it from a video or even a verbal description.
 
dnquark said:
For instance, all their pop turn variations are great, but you need to have learned the proper connection for leading a pop turn, which is a bit subtle; there's no way you could get it from a video or even a verbal description.
Click to expand...

I can't do'em. :oops: (Either that, or all the local follows are unable to follow them. :lol: )
 
It's not clear to me from the video that the "bowing" is indeed happening. In the hollywood school of the "whip" the leader's left arm movement is exaggerated to create the illusion that the arm is forcing out the follower but it dosen't happen. The lead is still from the right arm releasing the follower with the left arm following but with no "force" to create the illusion.

Everything I've heard and classes I've taken emphasizes this. The fact that the followers right arm appears relaxed indicates that this is what is going on.

I'm recently learning a school of the hollywood style swingout where the left arm is even more exagerrated during the release. The instructor calls it the "frisbee arm" because it has the same movement as the underhanded throwing the frisbee motion.

The couple here seems to have more of a Hollywood-West coast style than something closer to savoy lindy. The charleston kicks they're doing appears closer to the "savoy kicks" than what we know as charleston. However, I don't think it's possible that people can learn savoy kicks before having any experience with the old style charleston basics but anything is possible I supppose.

And many of the moves seem to have a certain "somewhere closer to west coast" feel to them. Any WCS people here that can confirm this?
 
It's not clear to me from the video that the "bowing" is indeed happening. In the hollywood school of the "whip" the leader's left arm movement is exaggerated to create the illusion that the arm is forcing out the follower but it dosen't happen. The lead is still from the right arm releasing the follower with the left arm following but with no "force" to create the illusion.

Everything I've heard and classes I've taken emphasizes this. The fact that the followers right arm appears relaxed indicates that this is what is going on.

I'm recently learning a school of the hollywood style swingout where the left arm is even more exagerrated during the release. The instructor calls it the "frisbee arm" because it has the same movement as the underhanded throwing the frisbee motion.

The couple here seems to have more of a Hollywood-West coast style than something closer to savoy lindy. The charleston kicks they're doing appears closer to the "savoy kicks" than what we know as charleston. However, I don't think it's possible that people can learn savoy kicks before having any experience with the old style charleston basics but anything is possible I supppose.

And many of the moves seem to have a certain "somewhere closer to west coast" feel to them. Any WCS people here that can confirm this?
 
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