TTanguero
Forum Master
Yeah, it's follower code for 'Don't use your arms to lead.' I'm just cautioning against ascribing sexual motives to a comment which is 99.9% certain to be about your technique.
Cadenas
- Thread starter Numawan
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Tango Newbie
Well-Known Member
If anything, she uses her right arm as a part of her back-leading. I will say, this follower is by a large margin, the one who engages in a much tighter 'close-embrace' with me than any other followers in our community. And from I've seen, she dances this way with me more so than the other leaders 99.9% of the time.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Probably had more to do with your lead than her breasts. That's why she asked for a firmer embrace.On the other hand, during a late-afternoon milonga one time while dancing in a super tight close-embrace this follower whispered in my ear; "just lead with your chest a little more..." while executing cadenas.
Of course I had no problem with this either, but figured it has something to do with wanting me to be pressed up against her large breasts (which she wants every time we dance...)
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Generally not good, often a sign of poor balance. Your arms should be firm but not pushing in either direction.
Tango Newbie
Well-Known Member
There seems to be a little of both... I won't get into it here, but like I said in that previous post, this follower dances with a lot of leaders, but somehow I'm the 'chosen one' to be held in a super tight, close-embrace.
I don't mind a close-embrace, but with her it makes my job harder.
Tango Newbie
Well-Known Member
Yes, I keep my arm in the 50/50 range at the right height, but this follower tends to "muscle" it outwards especially in cadenas, almost in 'ballroom' style.
I have noticed the average argentine from my visits to BA do use their outside arm a lot more than dancers in the US, in the sense that they’re a lot more present with it and give some counter push back.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
There's some truth in that, but I'm not sure it's kinetic, an effort to create movement. It's "presence," as you said – something static that stores energy in the embrace and more clearly communicates body position. People tend to mix up the two and assume that presence means push, but the idea is for the other partner to provide the same presence so that the two cancel out and create not movement but "isometric tension" or "compression," similar to the simultaneous push and pull on a handgun in the Weaver stance – it adds control and stability.
One Argentine guy here got grumpy about followers here complaining that he was torqueing them with his arms. His feeling is that they were just feeling presence they refused to match. According to him, Argentine women match him. I've certainly felt that from Claudia Codega, Graciela Gonzalez, Ariadna Naveira, and Sofia Saborido in classes, though maybe they switch it off at the milonga (but I rather doubt that). I think non-Argentine women or their teachers have weird hang-ups about being "too present," which might be cultural.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Yes, but I think being "present" with the arm is a good thing. It can do a little bit of work. I don't like the pushing and pulling you see with certain dancers (where the arms are all over the place) though. I generally do not move my left arm.
Numawan
Well-Known Member
The work of my left arm ... that's the technique issue I am getting the most remarks about during my private lessons.
TTanguero
Forum Master
Yes, my take on this is the same as JiT's. Two Argentine teachers had me work on achieving that arm presence. It's not pushing or pulling, but rather ensuring that the arm is part of the frame.
You could say that (a) pushing and pulling with the arm and (b) having it be too floppy are two sides of the same coin: having the arm be disconnected from the frame.
Numawan
Well-Known Member
Well, during my private lesson yesterday, we worked on many of the cadenas mentioned in this thread.
- Cadenas of forward sacadas, on both sides.
- Cadenas with ´stepping outside'.
- Brummbaers' cadenas of back-forward alteraciones. Hadn't done that one before. Technically not too hard, but there was a rhythmical aspect I had to work on.
- And briefly even JiT's cadena of mordidas.
All that mostly to tango-vals rhythms of course. I was really tired after that lesson.
- Cadenas of forward sacadas, on both sides.
- Cadenas with ´stepping outside'.
- Brummbaers' cadenas of back-forward alteraciones. Hadn't done that one before. Technically not too hard, but there was a rhythmical aspect I had to work on.
- And briefly even JiT's cadena of mordidas.
All that mostly to tango-vals rhythms of course. I was really tired after that lesson.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
It's always something. My coach is currently binging on micro-corrections: round out my back, bring my hips more "around" my partner, use a liaison to turn all step-pivot into a smooth steppivot in one time or even half time, etc. Stuff that, to quote her, I ". . . already do well enough for social dance, so nobody else will notice." Anyway, I had the Left-Arm Lectures a while back, and I'm sure we'll return there.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
My experience is that a good coach will come back to it eventually.On the positive side, I am not receiving so many remarks about my posture anymore. Thus, I assume that that must have improved.
My weekly coaching sessions from 2013 to 2019 were about big things, at times steps but overwhelmingly more often coarse-grained biomechanics – 10s of centimetres and degrees – and basic timing/musicality. Since then, it has been 4 years of regular cycles through increasingly fine-grained biomechanics (single cm and °) and complicated timing/musicality (dancing in quadruple time, rubato, a piacere, etc. and leading one time while dancing another). Posture is always good enough until it isn't.
As I said, it reaches the point where it doesn't matter for ordinary social dance. It's refinement as meditation and self-improvement unless you intend to perform, which I definitely do not. Most of the followers I dance with are still off by 10s of cm and °; some aren't even in the correct quadrant ("Why are you off to one side and not in front of me?"). I blame myself, go to my coach, lead the same thing to her, and get told that it's fine but that I can't expect that precision from Jane Q. Unknown at the milonga.