Can Tango change?

[Mario7]

I enjoy watching the evolution of dance. 8)

I don't. Eventually, I may have to live in BsAs in order to experience Tango Tango. If it changes to the point it has in the practica I attended last night, I will cease to dance it. {I attended a practica where most take Nuevo classes, I danced the close embrace with; walk to the cross, parallel and crossed footed walking, ocho cortado and giros right and left and was asked by my partner "When are you going to take classes?" then told that I was just "Dancing" and not doing "Tango".}
= Well, how come my "Dancing" looks like dancing and their "Tango" doesn't ?

 

[Joe]

Were there mirrors at your practica?

 

[Mario7]

Were there mirrors at your practica?

Yes, there are mirrors. I'm just saying that their dancing looks more like Kung Fu to me than dancing. This is not the first time that I was told that I was just 'dancing'. People here are believing that 'Tango' means steps and intricate weaving with the back ganchos, kicks between the legs, correographed Giros with multiple sacadas, etc etc...welcome to the new 'input' that will be affecting BsAs? ..I hope not.:roll: If it did, I would just
quit 'dancing' 'tango' altogether.

 

[jennyisdancing]

Yes, there are mirrors. I'm just saying that their dancing looks more like Kung Fu to me than dancing. This is not the first time that I was told that I was just 'dancing'. People here are believing that 'Tango' means steps and intricate weaving with the back ganchos, kicks between the legs, correographed Giros with multiple sacadas, etc etc...welcome to the new 'input' that will be affecting BsAs? ..I hope not.:roll: If it did, I would just
quit 'dancing' 'tango' altogether.

Yep...one of the reasons I rarely dance tango anymore. Not that I dislike nuevo steps necessarily, but some folks seem to be obsessed with them and feel they are not 'dancing' unless they do those moves. Never mind if the moves go with the music or not.

 

[Dave Bailey]

I don't.

Why not?

Eventually, I may have to live in BsAs in order to experience Tango Tango. If it changes to the point it has in the practica I attended last night, I will cease to dance it. {I attended a practica where most take Nuevo classes, I danced the close embrace with; walk to the cross, parallel and crossed footed walking, ocho cortado and giros right and left and was asked by my partner "When are you going to take classes?" then told that I was just "Dancing" and not doing "Tango".}

Well, it seems a massive jump to take one silly comment and expand that into "all nuevo dancers are idiots". They're not.

Well, not all of them.

 

[Dave Bailey]

People here are believing that 'Tango' means steps and intricate weaving with the back ganchos, kicks between the legs, correographed Giros with multiple sacadas, etc etc...

Cor, sounds like fun

And:

welcome to the new 'input' that will be affecting BsAs? ..I hope not.:roll: If it did, I would just
quit 'dancing' 'tango' altogether.

and:

Yep...one of the reasons I rarely dance tango anymore. Not that I dislike nuevo steps necessarily, but some folks seem to be obsessed with them and feel they are not 'dancing' unless they do those moves. Never mind if the moves go with the music or not.

Let's be honest, your problem is not with the steps, it's with the fact that your local milonga dancers are apparently rubbish.

 

[Ampster]

Yes, there are mirrors. I'm just saying that their dancing looks more like Kung Fu to me than dancing. This is not the first time that I was told that I was just 'dancing'. People here are believing that 'Tango' means steps and intricate weaving with the back ganchos, kicks between the legs, correographed Giros with multiple sacadas, etc etc...welcome to the new 'input' that will be affecting BsAs? ..I hope not.:roll: If it did, I would just
quit 'dancing' 'tango' altogether.

You need to come visit Seattle and dance at "LA Garua." It's one of our milongas that are almost exclusively milonguero. We just dance... but I digress.

What you experienced is common in most nuevo circles, especially from some beginners. I've come across a few of them in my time, and just chuckle when they tell me that. Actually, some of the more experienced (and better) nuevo types whom I know, can dance milonguero if the need arose.

In any case, stop going there. Aren't there any other venues (in the Philliy area) you can go to that are frequented by close embrace types? You are in Philadelphia, right?



A listing of AT stuff in Philly--> Click here

 

[Zoopsia59]

This is not the first time that I was told that I was just 'dancing'. People here are believing that 'Tango' means steps and intricate weaving with the back ganchos, kicks between the legs, correographed Giros with multiple sacadas, etc etc..

Then they are the ones who don't know what tango is. They are the ones who are just dancing.

Tango isn't the dance itself. The older milongueros and folks I've met who have lived or danced in the milongas of BA talk about someone "having tango". "Having tango" doesn't come from the complexity of the steps or the vigorousness of the workout you get from doing them.

Tango is a feeling shared with the partner, responding to music, with consideration of those around you. Tango is not a dance step. You can have tango and be barely moving (which in some of those milongas is pretty much all you're doing)

I'm not bashing nuevo and saying it isn't tango. I think you can "have tango" while doing nuevo style moves in open embrace. I've had a few tandas doing nuevo where I really felt just as connected and "one" with the music and my partner as I have in traditional CE milonguero style. I remember a few that were as trancendental as any CE I've had.

But not very often and only with excellent leaders who can lead fancy stuff so smoothly that I am not left trying to figure out "what was THAT he just led?". They also know how to use the music (or should I say.. we hear the music similarly so my instincts for movement and play mesh well with their own) and they can respond to what I do so that we create something together.

But if someone thinks that you HAVE to be doing the fancy stuff to be doing tango, then they haven't experienced tango yet. Many leaders (of all styles) dance their partner.. they don't dance WITH their partner. I'm not referring to the amount of movement the leader does relative to the follower, but the amount to which he takes her into account vs just doing his own thing. (I'm thinking that is the case with the gentleman that Jan says does all those tiring turns... he "dances" the follower) Leaders who dance their partner dance for themself or for those watching. Leaders who dance WITH their partner dance for the 2 of them as a couple while respecting the other couples on the floor. The same goes for followers. Those are the people who "have tango".

 

[jennyisdancing]

You need to come visit Seattle and dance at "LA Garua." It's one of our milongas that are almost exclusively milonguero. We just dance... but I digress.

What you experienced is common in most nuevo circles, especially from some beginners. I've come across a few of them in my time, and just chuckle when they tell me that. Actually, some of the more experienced (and better) nuevo types whom I know, can dance milonguero if the need arose.

In any case, stop going there. Aren't there any other venues (in the Philliy area) you can go to that are frequented by close embrace types? You are in Philadelphia, right?


A listing of AT stuff in Philly--> Click here

I'm in Philly as well, and recently one of our major newspapers ran an article that confirmed the popularity of nuevo in our region.

In particular, a variation on traditional tango - called tango nuevo - has found an audience in the city.

Link

The article was a good reflection of the Philly tango scene and included most of the well known teachers in our area. In fact, I took excellent lessons with the couple pictured. They do teach traditional tango and really focus on basics in their beginner classes - but I think the popularity of nuevo seems more to do with what the customers (students) are demanding.

 

[Ampster]

I'm in Philly as well, and recently one of our major newspapers ran an article that confirmed the popularity of nuevo in our region.

In particular, a variation on traditional tango - called tango nuevo - has found an audience in the city.

Link

The article was a good reflection of the Philly tango scene and included most of the well known teachers in our area. In fact, I took excellent lessons with the couple pictured. They do teach traditional tango and really focus on basics in their beginner classes - but I think the popularity of nuevo seems more to do with what the customers (students) are demanding.

Seattle went through this phase a few years ago. Until, a few dedicated individuals decided to make a niche for the more traditional forms and concentrate on it. It worked. Seattle milongueros changed it by developing a cadre of close embrace people, with close embrace friendly milongas.

Changes like these don't just happen. Someone (a few people) need to step up and make it happen.

 

[dchester]

Yep...one of the reasons I rarely dance tango anymore. Not that I dislike nuevo steps necessarily, but some folks seem to be obsessed with them and feel they are not 'dancing' unless they do those moves. Never mind if the moves go with the music or not.

So I'm guessing, this isn't your type of milonga.

"Fun and Funky, Tango Hop offers a foundation of Traditional Tango music with an eclectic mix of Alternative too."

:bouncy:

 

[bordertangoman]

Leaders who dance their partner dance for themself or for those watching. Leaders who dance WITH their partner dance for the 2 of them as a couple while respecting the other couples on the floor. The same goes for followers. Those are the people who "have tango".

I have mixed experience of this ( I agree with the rest of your post) When I have danced with Argentian ladies they require or expect a lot more "command" from the man. Which I think is both a combination of a strong physical lead but also that you are absolutley 100% certain of each step and it is this unswerving intention which allows the woman to "surrender" as Marcia Rock puts it. European women are different; they want more participation in the dance so a playful milonga is often more enjoyable with them than tango.
Of course these are sweeping generalisations.

 

[bastet]

Yep...one of the reasons I rarely dance tango anymore. Not that I dislike nuevo steps necessarily, but some folks seem to be obsessed with them and feel they are not 'dancing' unless they do those moves. Never mind if the moves go with the music or not.

much the same here in my own area...and people say much the same thing about us...our dancing is "too simple" and "not difficult enough"...

 

[bastet]

I have mixed experience of this ( I agree with the rest of your post) When I have danced with Argentian ladies they require or expect a lot more "command" from the man. Which I think is both a combination of a strong physical lead but also that you are absolutley 100% certain of each step and it is this unswerving intention which allows the woman to "surrender" as Marcia Rock puts it. European women are different; they want more participation in the dance so a playful milonga is often more enjoyable with them than tango.
Of course these are sweeping generalisations.

Hmm...Quite sweeping....

I guess I have a different idea of what "surrender" means to me, as a follower.

To me, a lead being "certain" doesn't imply that I want to be carried around like a puppet, nor be dictated to for an entire tanda.

A weak lead actually implies less participation to me, because then I have to pay that much more attention to what the leader "meant" and "guesswork" that I can't enjoy and participate as much as I'd like.

If a leader is "certain" and sure of his movement, then I am able to relax more and focus on 2 things of great importance to me- my connection to him and the music. If a leader is uncertain or weak, listening to the music is about the first thing to go for me.

I think if you ask leads who are quite certain and sure of their movement and dancing, they will probably reply that they actually perfer ladies to participate as well, and this isn't the same thing as ladies "guessing" a weak lead and making something up and calling it participation.

We were actually at a milonga the other week that had pretty bad floorcraft. However, my other half mentioned that though he noticed it, it didn't bother him too much, as he has been honing his ability to "command" the space underneath him to the point where most of the chaos around him made little interference with what he was able to do in a dance- and because my "dance flow" was never interrupted, I never noticed it either.

 

[jennyisdancing]

So I'm guessing, this isn't your type of milonga.

"Fun and Funky, Tango Hop offers a foundation of Traditional Tango music with an eclectic mix of Alternative too."

:bouncy:

Actually, that would totally be my type of milonga! Please don't misunderstand...I'm not locked into one style of tango. All of them are good, and I love mixing up music, steps, and genres.

The thing I am opposed to, is the notion that fancy, flashy technical steps solely constitute dancing - which is unfortunately the approach of some nuevo fans. I want my dancing to involve musicality, creativity and feeling, no matter what style it is.