ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Well, Gavito was Gavito, and only danced with a couple of women, and they knew how he danced and could match him. They are excellent dancers in their own right. Comfortable though? Not for me.
Can we talk about hand position on the open side?
- Thread starter Miradamiranda
- Start date
Everyone is talking about the way Gavito is seen in the pic holding the palm. It is not something I will do and I see very few hold that way. I haven’t seen anyone teaching a hold like that.
But whether it is comfortable or not, can only be said by someone who has danced with him. Things looking uncomfortable to observers and actually being uncomfortable are two distinct. Problem also occurs when they get copied by those who do not know better and cause discomfort. A hold like that is likely to go wrong in several ways making it a cause of discomfort to cause of pain.
For that hold not to feel uncomfortable the position of arm and elbow, tension in the arm, etc are vital. It is less forgiving of the holds.
I have tried it (why not), and it works.
I do not have one standard way. I adapt my hold to the partners ability and try to get to something optimum. With some rare partners I dance with the palm above or at her head level. With most it is between the ear level to shoulder level. With a few it will be below shoulder level. It really depends on the partner.
If talking about just the palms, like everything else in the body, people have different anatomies and anatomical flexibility. For example my palm can twist backward further than most people. My right plam is able to twist a bit more than my left. So something that works for me will not work for you. Some followers keep their fingers and palm light that if you don’t provide support they start slipping to the base of the palm. It amazes me how they are either not aware nor try to correct it. I watch them with the other leaders after that and it is the same.
My conclusion is the only universal rule is don’t hurt and don’t make it uncomfortable for the partner. Other than that there is no universal rule for how to make a hold. Of course from pure aesthetics and functional needs, certain guidelines work better.
But whether it is comfortable or not, can only be said by someone who has danced with him. Things looking uncomfortable to observers and actually being uncomfortable are two distinct. Problem also occurs when they get copied by those who do not know better and cause discomfort. A hold like that is likely to go wrong in several ways making it a cause of discomfort to cause of pain.
For that hold not to feel uncomfortable the position of arm and elbow, tension in the arm, etc are vital. It is less forgiving of the holds.
I have tried it (why not), and it works.
I do not have one standard way. I adapt my hold to the partners ability and try to get to something optimum. With some rare partners I dance with the palm above or at her head level. With most it is between the ear level to shoulder level. With a few it will be below shoulder level. It really depends on the partner.
If talking about just the palms, like everything else in the body, people have different anatomies and anatomical flexibility. For example my palm can twist backward further than most people. My right plam is able to twist a bit more than my left. So something that works for me will not work for you. Some followers keep their fingers and palm light that if you don’t provide support they start slipping to the base of the palm. It amazes me how they are either not aware nor try to correct it. I watch them with the other leaders after that and it is the same.
My conclusion is the only universal rule is don’t hurt and don’t make it uncomfortable for the partner. Other than that there is no universal rule for how to make a hold. Of course from pure aesthetics and functional needs, certain guidelines work better.
Be Present
Well-Known Member
I also personally don’t care for the look since it looks like the leaders is putting pressure on the wrist even if it’s somehow comfortable. To me it detracts from tne beauty of the dance and distracts from more important things to watch. I like watching Gavito and there was a recent workshop with Marciella. But I don’t like even looking at the open side hands and wrists.
To each his/her own
tangomaniac
Well-Known Member
I don't have time to read all 77 responses, so I hope I'm not repeating anything.
Think of driving a car. Your hands are in front of you. Think of pushing a shopping cart in the supermarket. Your hands are in front of you. When you dance, your hands should be in front of you, not stretched out. The arms shouldn't be higher than the height of the SHORTER person. If you take stand while riding public transportation, you grab a pole for support at shoulder height. The same thing for dancing.
To make this happen, the elbow must BENT, not straight.
Think of figure skating. A skater keeps arms in while jumping.
If the arms are out, the jump won't be circular but elliptical because the skater is pushing outward. The same thing for molinetes. If the arms are thrust out, the molinete will be elliptical, not circular. The couple will move out of position in the line of dance. The couple behind may move into the now vacant space. The first couple may try to reclaim their former position, but it's gone because they left it.
Miradamiranda
Well-Known Member
Thanks, @tangomaniac.
The guy I was ranting about above, I’ve only run into once the past few months, after this thread started. And again my wrist hurt from dancing with him. However, I’ve recently danced with several others of different heights with that same weird position, as if they avoid palm to palm. I find it as a follower very useful to let the root of the hands touch for clarity in for example a direction reversal. These other guys, two were much shorter than me, two were my height, the 5th much taller than me. So I don’t think it’s a height issue or that they have something physically preventing them from lifting their lower arm higher and at a better angle. They all have danced for min 25 years and have other wonderful qualities. This is leading me to think hand position was not taught well in the past when other aspects were considered more important. It’s driving me nuts. To the point that I needed a ‘repair dance’ with others who only dance a few years but who have a nice embrace with respect to hands.
The guy I was ranting about above, I’ve only run into once the past few months, after this thread started. And again my wrist hurt from dancing with him. However, I’ve recently danced with several others of different heights with that same weird position, as if they avoid palm to palm. I find it as a follower very useful to let the root of the hands touch for clarity in for example a direction reversal. These other guys, two were much shorter than me, two were my height, the 5th much taller than me. So I don’t think it’s a height issue or that they have something physically preventing them from lifting their lower arm higher and at a better angle. They all have danced for min 25 years and have other wonderful qualities. This is leading me to think hand position was not taught well in the past when other aspects were considered more important. It’s driving me nuts. To the point that I needed a ‘repair dance’ with others who only dance a few years but who have a nice embrace with respect to hands.
tangomaniac
Well-Known Member
MiradaMiranda
I forgot to include I dance with my palm up and my partner's palm is in my palm.
No squeezing so there's no tension, pressure, and resistance.
My partner can freely rotate because her arms are in front of her. The moment the right arm thrusts out, she can't rotate.
I forgot to include I dance with my palm up and my partner's palm is in my palm.
No squeezing so there's no tension, pressure, and resistance.
My partner can freely rotate because her arms are in front of her. The moment the right arm thrusts out, she can't rotate.