Can we talk dresses?
- Thread starter fatherdowling
- Start date
I am relatively new to Ballroom competitions. I will be doing my first PRO-AM American Rhythm comp later this year. Isn't the object of competitions supposed to be on the dancing and not the costume?
I am in the 55+ catagory and none of us who should be wearing what the pros wear. ( I understand the concept for the Pros) So why spend thousands? Can someone shed some light on this topic for me?
I am in the 55+ catagory and none of us who should be wearing what the pros wear. ( I understand the concept for the Pros) So why spend thousands? Can someone shed some light on this topic for me?
When you get down to it, it's the same reason that paintings are hung in frames, or theater arts use costumes.
Yes, the frame and the costume are not the heart of the art. But they make the presentation ever so much better when they are done well!
With respect to dance specifically. The costume is never the thing being judged. But a well-chosen costume can do all of the following:
- Draw eyes to you on a crowded floor. Judges won't mark you if they don't notice you!
- Accentuate the movements you do well, and mask the movements you do poorly
- Make you feel powerful and confident, so that you literally do move better
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I once attended a lecture by a former Ballroom world champion, who said "This sport is inherently unfair. If we wanted it to be fair, then there would be one song, one costume, one choreography, etc. Of course, if we did that, it wouldn't be at all interesting anymore!"
Investing in a great costume is just one of many ways to bend that unfairness in your favor. Not the only one, and probably not the most important...but if you've put tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars into learning to move well, how silly would it be to get completely overlooked just because you didn't want to drop $1000 on a fancy dress?
Bottom line is, you absolutely *should* invest seriously in your performance costume, as a competitor. Your budget for it is going to depend on your budget for dance in general, so take with a grain of salt any numbers pulled out of thin air, but it is absolutely not a place to cut corners. It matters!
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Reach
Well-Known Member
I hear you. For me, the cost of a new dress can equal the cost of a competition. I understand the idea of appropriate appearance. But I am entering a dance competition, not a fashion show or beauty pageant. Then add hair and makeup. At least the dress can be worn multiple times.
There are many styles of dresses. Therefore finding one you like and feel comfortable in is possible. Try on as many different dresses as possible, to see what suits you. Ask your Pros for suggestions. Then ask around at the studio where ladies get their dresses. Either new, used, rented or custom made.
Hope you find what you like.
I would prefer simple, well made, and less expensive costumes. And more for lessons and comps. But it appears part of the competition is not just standing out in dancing, but in appearance.
Wonder if it was always like that?
There are many styles of dresses. Therefore finding one you like and feel comfortable in is possible. Try on as many different dresses as possible, to see what suits you. Ask your Pros for suggestions. Then ask around at the studio where ladies get their dresses. Either new, used, rented or custom made.
Hope you find what you like.
I would prefer simple, well made, and less expensive costumes. And more for lessons and comps. But it appears part of the competition is not just standing out in dancing, but in appearance.
Wonder if it was always like that?
Yes, exactly what @Reach said!!!
One thing I totally overlooked in my long treatise is that, if this is your first competition, you can't be certain yet that you are going to be a lifelong junkie the way some of us are. And it makes no sense at all to drop a ton of money on a costume if you use it once and then decide that this part of dance isn't for you. Dance is a huge universe, and competitions are just one corner of it.
You can ignore all of my advice until later, if and when you decide that you'd like to keep doing this. Until then, don't put any money into a costume that you wouldn't be willing to just light on fire!
One thing I totally overlooked in my long treatise is that, if this is your first competition, you can't be certain yet that you are going to be a lifelong junkie the way some of us are. And it makes no sense at all to drop a ton of money on a costume if you use it once and then decide that this part of dance isn't for you. Dance is a huge universe, and competitions are just one corner of it.
You can ignore all of my advice until later, if and when you decide that you'd like to keep doing this. Until then, don't put any money into a costume that you wouldn't be willing to just light on fire!
MaggiWrites
Well-Known Member
I've seen a husband and wife team, pupils of my own teacher, who competed in plain white blouse, knee-length black skirt/white shirt, black pants. They said they felt embarrassed and my teacher said that made them stiffen up a bit, but they did quite well in the standings even if they didn't win. They obviously weren't marked down (or not much) by the judges, just perhaps weren't noticed as much among all the glitter swirling around them. I've been told at least one purpose of all the glitz is to catch the judges' eyes when there's a large number of dancers on the floor all wanting attention.
You know, something weird about this sport is that, as you go further, it does start to more and more resemble a beauty pageant.
Not because technique matters any less, but because technique is less and less of a differentiator from one couple to the next. When EVERYBODY is quite good, you can't rely on being able to reliably just choose the better dancer. It starts to become a question of which dancer's work appeals to you the most. All possibility of objectivity falls out. In that environment, you kind of need to grasp at any straw that will help you break ties against your nearest neighbors...
But if everyone is wearing bright colors and Bling, isn't that like when everyone in a room is yelling and you can't really hear anyone? The last couple of comps that I went to observe, everyone had rhinestones and everyone basically looked the same.
fatherdowling
Well-Known Member
But it’s also a bit of the fun of it too. When else in my life and I going to have a full face of makeup and hair at 7am and dance in a rhinestone dress? It’s a costume and then I can also embody someone confident and glamorous.
I grew up riding horses competitively so I understand (and appreciate) the pageantry aspect.
I grew up riding horses competitively so I understand (and appreciate) the pageantry aspect.
Reach
Well-Known Member
To some extent, yes. But watch the dancers on the floor carefully. What colors catch your eye quickly? Are there certain features on a dress, style of float, stoned design, type of bodice or skirt, that move so well, that your eye is drawn to it? A dress that fits and accents the particular dancer? A dress that makes the dancer feel beautiful. It will show on the floor.
For me it was an expensive trial and error. Now have dresses that make me feel beautiful.
Hope you find that dress sooner rather than later.
Yes, that's completely true. Everyone is clawing for attention, and in doing so, they make a somewhat uniform tableau. When my partners walk down the street in the morning before the competition, dressed in comfortable sweats, but wearing their hair and face, they're way more conspicuous than when they put on the shiny dress and get on the floor among all the other shiny dresses. The context affects the impact.
But if you're trying to be heard in a room where everyone is yelling, you still get more mileage by yelling yourself then you do by whispering. It is very much an arms race, and unfortunately there is no way to gain a competitive advantage by not playing it.
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That's pretty weird, isn't it? And in a lot of ways, it probably doesn't sound like much fun. At best, it involves stepping well outside of your comfort zone. At worst, it can feel like a betrayal of your inner self, putting on a face that isn't at all you.
There are a couple of ideas I encourage rookie competitors to try on for a size, given these psychological challenges.
The first one is, the value of the competition does not have to be measured by final placement. There are so many other goals you can use them for: challenging yourself to perform in public, which is a useful life skill; dancing all-out with big adrenaline in a way you can't really match on any social floor; living out a fairytale prince/princess fantasy. Just to name a few.
And if your goals in entering a competition are not restricted to "win or bust," then you're freed from the pressure to play all the stupid little metagames that competitors do to gain the smallest edge. Wear what you want--the costume that makes you feel confident and genuine--in full knowledge that it might put you at a disadvantage. Because placements aren't why you're here and aren't how you will measure your success, that disadvantage is meaningless.
The second idea I encourage rookie competitors to sit with is, competition is not a requirement to become a good dancer. There are several obvious advantages to competing, with respect to goal setting, deadlines, and organizational structure, and I think that ballroom teachers gravitate to competition precisely because of those things. But if you are sufficiently self-motivated that you can light the fire under yourself, then competitions might just be a distraction.
My wife is like this, in fact. Loves to dance, loves to practice and grow, but really doesn't like competing. She only does it as a favor to me, because I need that structure in order to keep focused.
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So, my advice to you? You don't need do anything crazy in your first competition. Your pros and coaches may push you to invest heavily, both money and mindset. That is to be expected, as upgrading your dancing as efficiently as possible is their main goal, and going deep into competition is a well-tested avenue for doing that. But you do have agency enough to say no to the things that sound like a bridge too far, and you should use that agency.
Try out the contest, in whatever manner makes you feel comfortable. Watch. Listen. Observe. Feel things. At the end, think about what you liked about the experience, and what you didn't. If, on the balance, you liked it more than you didn't, you can try going a little deeper next time!
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neveragain
Well-Known Member
These dresses cost thousands bcs they are incredibly labor intensive to produce. I rhinestoned a whole dress myself and I'm telling you I think I developed some temporary phobia on rhinestones afterwards. Honestly, they are the most comfortable garments I’ve ever danced in—beyond just being glitzy, they are specifically designed to enhance your movement on the floor.
That said, since you’re new to the floor, there’s no need to drop thousands of dollars just yet. I highly suggest renting if you can. Unfortunately, the rental shop I used to frequent has closed down, but you’ll find plenty of great recommendations for latinodances around here as well for custom made ones without breaking your wallet
I go against the grain, being someone who is completely willing to wear non-traditional costuming, particularly as I compete as Lead and as Follow. So, for example, I’ll wear carefully selected things that are mix-and-match bodysuits/skirts/trousers. I’ll wear trousers (yes, trousers even as a Follow). I’ll wear jackets that aren’t black. When I wear a suit, I wear a bodysuit under it – I don’t wear a bowtie, necktie, cufflinks.
The one thing I will say – whatever I wear, it is made of “dance fabric” so that the look and movement of the costume are suitable for ballroom dancing. My jackets are made by a ballroom tailor, as are one or two pairs of trousers (not anywhere near as expensive as a ballgown!). I’ve had one or two bodysuits made by ballgown dressmakers. Other bodysuits, tops, and trousers come from retailers like danceshopper or DSI. I would never just go to Target and buy a white blouse and black pants or black skirt to wear at a competition.
For me, it isn’t that I’m anti-ballgown – if I’m competing only as Follow, I’ll pull out a ballgown. But, I don’t think that ballgowns particularly are “me”, so I don’t fret too much if I’m wearing something that isn’t “traditional.”
And, yes – it IS a way to stand out from all the rest of the dancers who are wearing the more familiar kind of costuming.
Do OTHER people like it? Probably not. Do JUDGES like it? Probably not. But I’m not that great of a dancer that wearing thousands and thousands of dollars worth of costuming is going to get me better marks.
YMMV.
The one thing I will say – whatever I wear, it is made of “dance fabric” so that the look and movement of the costume are suitable for ballroom dancing. My jackets are made by a ballroom tailor, as are one or two pairs of trousers (not anywhere near as expensive as a ballgown!). I’ve had one or two bodysuits made by ballgown dressmakers. Other bodysuits, tops, and trousers come from retailers like danceshopper or DSI. I would never just go to Target and buy a white blouse and black pants or black skirt to wear at a competition.
For me, it isn’t that I’m anti-ballgown – if I’m competing only as Follow, I’ll pull out a ballgown. But, I don’t think that ballgowns particularly are “me”, so I don’t fret too much if I’m wearing something that isn’t “traditional.”
And, yes – it IS a way to stand out from all the rest of the dancers who are wearing the more familiar kind of costuming.
Do OTHER people like it? Probably not. Do JUDGES like it? Probably not. But I’m not that great of a dancer that wearing thousands and thousands of dollars worth of costuming is going to get me better marks.
YMMV.
raindance
Forum Master
In Pro/Am, nearly everyone will be wearing what the pros wear, or as close of an approximation to that as they can manage. It is not a requirement, but it is the pro/am competition environment. For your first comp(s) I encourage you to find an affordable option while you learn if competition is something you want (and are financially able) to seriously pursue, and also while you learn what you really love in a dress for yourself. Renting gowns can be a good option that will cost you hundreds instead of thousands, for instance.
Part of the costuming is about the things others have posted about above. It's part of the art of the sport, it catches the judges eyes, it can make you feel confident and in a way can indirectly help you dance better.
To be a bit cynical, the other part of it is that ballroom isn't just an artistic pursuit, it's an industry. Those dance dress vendors are trying to make a living, and encouraging everyone to wear expensive costumes is a part of that. Same goes for hair, jewelry, makeup, lessons, and so on.
There's nothing wrong with these people making a living doing what they do to be part of the ballroom scene. But realize that you are the consumer, and you get to decide how to spend your dollars, even if "everyone" says you should do X, Y, and Z for $$$$$. If you have the budget to spend on all these things and are enjoying it, go for it! If your budget is smaller (and/or you're just starting out and you're not sure how much you want to spend just yet), you can find ways to enjoy dancing on a smaller budget, whether that's used dresses, rental dresses, doing your own makeup, competing less often, etc. Discussions here can give you some ideas on that.
I will say that for my first comp my coach (a respected big time judge) at the time said I could compete in a simple black practice dress with nice makeup, hair and jewelry and that would be fine. I took him at his word, did that, and I felt very conspicuously under-dressed on the comp floor. The only other people dressed like me were in the practice rooms, or in the audience. I don't know that it made a difference in my marks, I was a new dancer and probably got the placements I deserved - but it wasn't a good experience for a new competitor trying to fit in a little. Someone else with more confidence going in might have felt fine about it. But I wish I had rented a nice gown instead.
Tracy
Well-Known Member
I was going to mention what Raindance just discussed. It will also help you feel like you belong as well as look like you belong. Your first comp can be intimidating and fitting in may be worth the effort. The balance of uniqueness and belonging is a challenge even without the money factor.