casino
- Thread starter Jack
- Start date
Sagitta
Well-Known Member
I think that casino should be learnt by people who at least know the salsa basics, and preferably by intermediate level salsa dancers. Having said that I know some people who have learnt casino without really learning salsa first, but the difference is there and can be seen.
Some previous threads on casino for you to peruse...if I am guessing correctly on the salsa style that you are referring to:
request = casino rueda step
Casino Rueda-Too Structured, No individuality?
Followers and Leaders in Rueda
Rueda
Some previous threads on casino for you to peruse...if I am guessing correctly on the salsa style that you are referring to:
request = casino rueda step
Casino Rueda-Too Structured, No individuality?
Followers and Leaders in Rueda
Rueda
If it is Rueda u mean (the wheel) - i support Sagitta's opinion in that is best to do it after beginner phase .. solidify the basic knowledge first and foremost then start style 'tasting' in a manner of speaking..
A big problem i noticed .. some salsa scenes teach salsa to beginners thru Rueda so as to maximize class numbers and easier for the instructor cause they deal with the whole group at once.. this .. to my eyes.. have ultimately lead to dire results.. as the those beginners who sarted learning with rueda became 'move executors' if u can call it that.. ie.. their interpretation to music is really hampered because they learned salsa thru a group of moves called by the circle leader and they got limitted to that.. so.. when they try dancing in couples they dish out the moves like mimics ..one after the other as they did in the circle disregarding the music high/lows/pauses/speed etc.. it looks mighty ugly when the music pauses and the couple are in mid-routine motion because they can only go on with the move they memorized..
Plus also it takes away from the lead because as a rueda dancer the lead is by one guy only - the one who is calling the move.. the other guys are following the order down.. so as a beginner.. u go into that scene you very possibly might end up less creative and a 'move disher'
BUT..
If u do it in the intermediate / advanced phase.. then by all means its mighty fun and would add to u in terms of moves and sharing the dance with as many people as possible .. which when done well.. is nothing short of fabuloso!
A big problem i noticed .. some salsa scenes teach salsa to beginners thru Rueda so as to maximize class numbers and easier for the instructor cause they deal with the whole group at once.. this .. to my eyes.. have ultimately lead to dire results.. as the those beginners who sarted learning with rueda became 'move executors' if u can call it that.. ie.. their interpretation to music is really hampered because they learned salsa thru a group of moves called by the circle leader and they got limitted to that.. so.. when they try dancing in couples they dish out the moves like mimics ..one after the other as they did in the circle disregarding the music high/lows/pauses/speed etc.. it looks mighty ugly when the music pauses and the couple are in mid-routine motion because they can only go on with the move they memorized..
Plus also it takes away from the lead because as a rueda dancer the lead is by one guy only - the one who is calling the move.. the other guys are following the order down.. so as a beginner.. u go into that scene you very possibly might end up less creative and a 'move disher'
BUT..
If u do it in the intermediate / advanced phase.. then by all means its mighty fun and would add to u in terms of moves and sharing the dance with as many people as possible .. which when done well.. is nothing short of fabuloso!
MacMoto
Active Member
I don't think this problem is limited to people learning salsa through Rueda... I've danced with many 'move executors' who pay no regard to the music. Many group classes are too focused on teaching moves to pay enough attention to lead/follow skills or musicality (one of my pet gripes).Sabor said:
SDsalsaguy
Administrator
So Jack, were you talking about Rueda or just Casino?
My term for your 'move executors' MacMoto, is "Pattern Dancers"... for exactly the reasons you describe.
My term for your 'move executors' MacMoto, is "Pattern Dancers"... for exactly the reasons you describe.
I live in Miami, Florida. When I first got into Salsa, the only style being taught down here was Casino. I was lucky enough to afford private classes, so I never took group classes and I never got into the Rueda thing.
Most people, however, can not afford private classes so for them it's either Rueda in a group or nothing.
Undoubtedly, no instructor can afford to pay attention to detail when he or she is teaching a group of 30 to 50 people, much like a chef can't expect to prepare his best meal when he is cooking for a mob of 50 people who are all going to enter the dining hall at once.
As for its complexity:
Now that Miami, however fledling, has it's L.A. style(my prefered) and Mambo schools, you will notice by visiting these schools that the majority of students who frequent them are either students who were in advanced levels of Casino, or people who moved to Miami from somewhere else and danced L.A. or Mambo style where they came from.
In any of the numerous Casino schools, you will see people of all ages taking classes, becuase it is way more social a style. I have personally witnessed many beginners and elderly dancers walk out of an L.A. class the moment they saw their first dip being performed, and just about run for the door at the site of a neck drop.
Most people, however, can not afford private classes so for them it's either Rueda in a group or nothing.
Undoubtedly, no instructor can afford to pay attention to detail when he or she is teaching a group of 30 to 50 people, much like a chef can't expect to prepare his best meal when he is cooking for a mob of 50 people who are all going to enter the dining hall at once.
As for its complexity:
Now that Miami, however fledling, has it's L.A. style(my prefered) and Mambo schools, you will notice by visiting these schools that the majority of students who frequent them are either students who were in advanced levels of Casino, or people who moved to Miami from somewhere else and danced L.A. or Mambo style where they came from.
In any of the numerous Casino schools, you will see people of all ages taking classes, becuase it is way more social a style. I have personally witnessed many beginners and elderly dancers walk out of an L.A. class the moment they saw their first dip being performed, and just about run for the door at the site of a neck drop.
I Have been in non Rueda casino style group lessons since my salsa puberty, here in Orlando.
I may keep doing this because timing, rhthym, etc: are most inportant to me. I know moves now, I feel more will be easier with timing and rhythm.
I dont want to be a pattern dancer at 100 mph.
I may keep doing this because timing, rhthym, etc: are most inportant to me. I know moves now, I feel more will be easier with timing and rhythm.
I dont want to be a pattern dancer at 100 mph.
salsachinita
New Member
IMHO, you get pattern dancers/move dishers no matter what style. In my local scene these people are generally L.A. style dancers.
But I will say that while casino *not soley taught in the Rueda formation* is great fun for everyone, the absolute beginners who started in this style can [1] & tend to present a complete lack/disregard of techniques which makes them poor leaders/followers. I have no idea why.
In comparison, L.A. schools teach a lot of moves/tricks which requires/demands greater techniques, so they tend to churn out students with better frames, and often (but not always, some don't lead, they just point :shock: ) better leading skills.
So when asked, I tend to send newbies to a more general kind of salsa instructor/school, where they are not heavily into one style or another. The newbies can make up their own mind after the absolute beginner stage as to which direction they'd like to head. Just my two cents.....
[1]Disclaimer: NOT in all cases. These are personal observations only, based on my local scene.
But I will say that while casino *not soley taught in the Rueda formation* is great fun for everyone, the absolute beginners who started in this style can [1] & tend to present a complete lack/disregard of techniques which makes them poor leaders/followers. I have no idea why.
In comparison, L.A. schools teach a lot of moves/tricks which requires/demands greater techniques, so they tend to churn out students with better frames, and often (but not always, some don't lead, they just point :shock: ) better leading skills.
So when asked, I tend to send newbies to a more general kind of salsa instructor/school, where they are not heavily into one style or another. The newbies can make up their own mind after the absolute beginner stage as to which direction they'd like to head. Just my two cents.....
[1]Disclaimer: NOT in all cases. These are personal observations only, based on my local scene.
peachexploration
New Member
salsachinita said:
Right SalsaChinita. It's because Rueda is focus more on moves. Hence the caller calls them out and the group executes them. It's really not good for beginniners. I also recommend learning good technique in one on one classes, then go on to rueda.
Well, I danced the Casino Rueda last nite at one of the studios here.
And I must tell you it was all together different. It is a more social way to learn, with caller and the moves to change partners, and a different basic
between moves. The circle or " casino" is quite interesting and we danced hard the whole lesson. The moves are ones that I learned in other classes.
The down side to this style is that there may not be as much emphasis on timing, and gaining club style " one on one" experience.
I will go back though it was a lot of fun, maybe one nite casino, one nite regular lessons.
And I must tell you it was all together different. It is a more social way to learn, with caller and the moves to change partners, and a different basic
between moves. The circle or " casino" is quite interesting and we danced hard the whole lesson. The moves are ones that I learned in other classes.
The down side to this style is that there may not be as much emphasis on timing, and gaining club style " one on one" experience.
I will go back though it was a lot of fun, maybe one nite casino, one nite regular lessons.